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    • eits88
    • By eits88 30th Jun 17, 5:18 PM
    • 42Posts
    • 9Thanks
    eits88
    Court summons for civil enforcement ltd
    • #1
    • 30th Jun 17, 5:18 PM
    Court summons for civil enforcement ltd 30th Jun 17 at 5:18 PM
    Hi everyone, I would love some help, I'm new to all this but have been reading the posts on here extensively.

    To be brief on what happened - our car was parked inside a CEL car park where there the first 10 mins are free. While in there, our son was sick and vomited everywhere, and this caused a delay getting back to the car. When we got back to the car park a ticket was purchased because it was apparent our car had overstayed, so it was purchased to cover any overstay, if you like.

    About a month or so later the first letter arrived. I responded by writing an "appeal", telling them exactly what happened. This was refused of course.

    Thereafter the usual followed, letters from whoever, threats, requests to pay, etc.. I ignored them all. Finally a letter before court was received which I also ignored and now a court claim against us for £350, including the usual £50 legal fees, £25 court fees, etc...

    I have been on MCOL and registered my intention to defend myself for all. I am now stuck as to what I should be sending in to the court and CEL as my defence. I'm worried that these generic, but adapted defences are now so common that maybe they have found a way to contest them successfully - is this the case?

    Can someone please point me to the right defence script to adapt and send, as in, a recent one.

    Does anyone know if CEL have actually gone to court and won one of these? Also, what happens if they decide not to take it further, does the court let us know of this, or do we need to wait 6 years?

    I plan to fight CEL all the way, as a matter of principle. I plan to document all the steps and proceedings on this thread so as to give back to the forum and help others in the same position as me.

    Many thanks, most grateful for any help whatsoever.

    eits88
    Last edited by eits88; 01-07-2017 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Typos
Page 3
    • eits88
    • By eits88 3rd Jul 17, 8:02 PM
    • 42 Posts
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    eits88
    Have just emailed my defence to the court and will follow up with a phone call to ensure they received it. I guess I just sit tight now and wait for something to happen....?

    I will keep this thread up to date with any further developments. Thank you to those who are helping with this, it is most appreciated.

    Best,
    • eits88
    • By eits88 4th Jul 17, 8:46 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    I sent my defence by email and received an automated response to say it was received. Today I called and they confirmed receipt. I checked MCOL and it now shows "defence received".

    Can those who know please tell me how long approximately from this stage does the anything happen? When does the questionnaire arrive?

    Many thanks in advance.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    • 49,992 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Maybe in a month, going by other cases at the mo.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • eits88
    • By eits88 7th Jul 17, 1:36 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Got a letter today to say my defence was officially received and placed on file. It will be sent to. Claimant and they then have 28 days to take it further otherwise it will be classed as "stayed" and thereafter they need to apply to the court to remove the stay. Will keep you posted!
    • Bemused14
    • By Bemused14 7th Jul 17, 4:17 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bemused14
    how to start a new thread? please excuse my ignorance and i am thankful for everyone's help here
    • eits88
    • By eits88 1st Aug 17, 9:23 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Hi again, it's almost a month since I sent in my defence, I've heard nothing from them since. Do you think that's the end of it? On the confirmation letter from the court, it says they have 28 days to respond to my defence otherwise it's a "stay". Shoud I still expect the questionnaire?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 1st Aug 17, 9:30 AM
    • 40,304 Posts
    • 80,500 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Hi again, it's almost a month since I sent in my defence, I've heard nothing from them since. Do you think that's the end of it? On the confirmation letter from the court, it says they have 28 days to respond to my defence otherwise it's a "stay". Shoud I still expect the questionnaire?
    Originally posted by eits88
    The best thing is probably to contact the court and ask what is happening as you have heard nothing.

    If the scammers haven't responded to the court, you could ask to have the case struck out due to their unreasonable behaviour, or better still, start a DPA counterclaim and make yourself a few hundred quid.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • eits88
    • By eits88 1st Aug 17, 3:48 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Thanks for your reply, Fruitcake. I will indeed call and ask the court. However they haven't updated the mco portal to that effect...

    I like the idea of a counter claim. On what basis though? As in, the stress and anxiety they have caused me? Also, by doing so, am I pushing my luck or would that not encourage them to pile back in?

    Otherwise I'm happy to do that, would you be able to outline the procedure?

    Best,
    88
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 1st Aug 17, 7:46 PM
    • 885 Posts
    • 1,857 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Hi again, it's almost a month since I sent in my defence, I've heard nothing from them since. Do you think that's the end of it? On the confirmation letter from the court, it says they have 28 days to respond to my defence otherwise it's a "stay". Shoud I still expect the questionnaire?
    Originally posted by eits88
    This is what CEL do. They issue a court claim hoping to frighten some poor sucker into paying their outrageous charge. Then when said "sucker" decides to stand up and fight they run a mile, knowing full well they won't win, leaving the claim to be "stayed"

    Unfortunately a stayed claim can be resurrected by them paying the £100 fee but I've never heard of CEL doing this.

    As advised it's worth writing to the court requesting the claim be struck out for their unreasonable behaviour, pointing out that they do this all the time and you believe such behaviour is that of a 'vexatious litigant'

    There haven't been many successful DPA claims against PPCs to date, but it's up to you if you want to give it a shot and are prepared to put the work in.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Aug 17, 8:46 PM
    • 14,528 Posts
    • 22,858 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I like the idea of a counter claim. On what basis though? As in, the stress and anxiety they have caused me?
    If you now want to turn the tables you could sue them for misuse of your data under the DPA. It's not for the faint-hearted or for those who think it's an easy run, assuming the forums will do most of the work - they won't. If you're prepared to put your back into this, the following will hopefully assist you.

    DATA PROTECTION ACT GUIDANCE

    First and foremost, please read thoroughly this extensive guidance put together by MSE poster Timothea. This will give you the background and conditions for you to consider and determine whether you might have a case to pursue.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

    Other Sources

    http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act

    Some apposite blogs from the Parking Prankster:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/parking-awareness-services-to-pay-400.html#comment-form

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/smart-parking-settle-out-of-court-for.html

    Latter part of this blog:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/heath-parade-graham-park-way-scam-site.html

    On PePiPoo, regular contributor 'Lynnzer' seems to be taking a lead in pushing for the pursuit of DPA breaches by PPCs. He has written a number of well constructed Letters Before Claim requiring the PPC to pay the motorist between £250 and £750 as compensation for the stress they have been put under by the PPC, or risk the matter resulting in a formal claim at the Small Claims Court. .

    http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/Templates.pdf

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

    LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM

    Drafted by Bargepole 05/02/2017

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72049019&postcount=18
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • eits88
    • By eits88 1st Aug 17, 10:12 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Thanks for your message, Umkomaas. I wouldn't expect it to be laid out on my behalf but after reading most of what you've posted above, I conclude that this is not for me - I wouldn't be able to articulate my case in the best possible way for me to persue the matter.

    I think I'd just be happy at this stage to have successfuly defended this totally insane penalty charge from this scammy company.

    If I do indeed manage to stop them in their muddy tracks, that would be plenty for me.

    I will call the court after the 28 days have passed.

    Final question, how do I apply for a strike out? Is there a form, or just send in a letter?

    Best,
    88
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Aug 17, 10:30 PM
    • 14,528 Posts
    • 22,858 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Final question, how do I apply for a strike out? Is there a form, or just send in a letter?
    Email the court with your request and the reasons for it (there must be valid reasons, not a stand-alone, random request). Don't expect them to automatically grant your request for a strike out. You must keep going, meeting all the deadlines placed on you, assuming this will go the distance and end up with a court hearing. That way you retain the moral high ground.

    You should complain to the court every time the claimant fails to comply with deadline/requirements placed on them.

    Keep at it!
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 01-08-2017 at 10:52 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • eits88
    • By eits88 1st Aug 17, 11:19 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Thanks again for your reply. And on what grounds should I request a strike out? I mean what angle should I be coming from and are there any examples you could point me towards?

    Many thanks in advance.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 2nd Aug 17, 12:38 AM
    • 885 Posts
    • 1,857 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Thanks again for your reply. And on what grounds should I request a strike out? I mean what angle should I be coming from and are there any examples you could point me towards?

    Many thanks in advance.
    Originally posted by eits88
    As above you point out that CEL are acting as a vexatious litigants, issuing hundreds of speculative claims which they have no intention of pursuing once they are defended.

    They are using the court as an aggressive form of debt collection to scare people into paying their baseless claims, or to obtain a default CCJ if the defendant has moved.

    The above is exactly what they have done in your case. Their conduct of this litigation clearly crosses the threshold of unreasonable behaviour as per CPR 27.14(2)(g). It is against the public interest and an abuse of the small claims process.

    You can also mention their woefully vague and inadequate particulars which did not allow you to understand our defend the claim properly. The fact they do not rely on PoFA meaning only the driver is liable, not the keeper, yet they were pursuing you as the RK without one shred of evidence as to who was driving.

    Say they were chancing their arm hoping to make a 'quick buck' and as it hasn't worked they've abandoned the claim. Invite the judge to check how many CEL claims are currently "stayed" at ccbc then they will find everything you've said is true.

    For all these reasons (and any others you can think of) the claim should be struck out as being highly speculative, having no prospect of success and due to the claimants unreasonable conduct of the litigation
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 2nd Aug 17, 6:56 AM
    • 497 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Having been through their own case and winning it, Lamilad is extremely knowledgeable on this. Do as they say

    You may not be successful with your request for a strike out - firstly I would add you should suggest the court uses their own case management powers to order the strike out without a hearing. This avoids the default response from smoe courts of "pay us £100 to consider your application".
    Secondly if you are not successful, and the claim is stayed, keep hold of paperwork, etc. I doubt they would pay £100 to lift the stay, but they may get (more) desperate.
    • eits88
    • By eits88 16th Aug 17, 9:36 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Good evening, I have now received a letter from the CCBC asking me to complete the Small Claims Directions questionnaire (Form N180). From reading all the posts as I did a while back when I launched my defense, I understand that this is normal in the proceedings.

    I would like to ask if someone could point me to the guidelines I should follow when completing this form?

    Very grateful for any help here.

    With thanks,
    88
    Last edited by eits88; 16-08-2017 at 9:36 PM. Reason: typo
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Aug 17, 9:40 PM
    • 49,992 Posts
    • 63,391 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep, it's in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, a post linked there by bargepole tells you how to complete it.

    You can still seize the chance to put a covering letter with the N180, pointing out the lack of cause of action & woeful particulars, and ask that the court uses their own case management powers to order the strike out without a hearing. No harm in asking.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • eits88
    • By eits88 16th Aug 17, 9:51 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Thanks for your quick response. I have located these notes from Bargepole and will follow them.

    I understand I have to send a copy of this questionnaire to CEL, does this have to be by post or can I email a scanned copy? If by post, does anyone have their official postal address for me?

    Also, can I email this back to CCBC?

    Many thanks again,

    88
    • eits88
    • By eits88 8th Sep 17, 11:57 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    eits88
    Hi again, here's a quick update... Sent the questionnaire a couple of weeks back and today I received a letter from CCBC titled "notice if transfer of proceedings".

    The letter says "to all parties, thus claim has been transferred to the below county court hearing centre for allocation. On receipt, the file will be referred to a procedural judge who will allocate the claim to a track and give case management directions. Details of the judge's directions will be sent to you in a notice of allocation.

    If you would like any further information you can contact the local county court hearing centre directly but please await the judge's directions".

    Can someone in this forum please advise what are the next steps and is this letter basically saying that a hearing will indeed go ahead?

    Many thanks in advance for your reply.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Sep 17, 12:08 PM
    • 32,767 Posts
    • 16,776 Thanks
    Quentin
    It means the case will now be dealt with at this new court location.

    At this stage it doesn't mean a hearing is definite. If there is one it will be at this court.

    Ultimately if the claimant pays out for a hearing then one is likely to go ahead
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