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  • FIRST POST
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 30th Jun 17, 2:30 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 45Thanks
    juxepe
    ***Help a Canadian visitor with a PPT please!***
    • #1
    • 30th Jun 17, 2:30 PM
    ***Help a Canadian visitor with a PPT please!*** 30th Jun 17 at 2:30 PM
    Hello all, I've read a lot of the posts but haven't found one that addresses my situation directly, so here it is:

    The facts:

    -Rental car from Easirent, to be returned on July 2, when I leave the UK
    -2 PCNs from UK Car Park Management (CPM), dated 27 and 28 June (I wasn't using the car then, had not seen the PCNs until the 29th)
    -I had displayed a resident permit on my windshield, though I'm not sure of its validity, it does look old, and is dated from Sept 2015, though there is no expiration date on it. There is a serial number, which I don't know what it refers to.

    The PCNs:

    Issue reason 1: Invalid Permit
    Issue reason 2: Not Displaying a Valid Permit

    The vehicle was parked on private property in contravention of the site parking restrictions as displayed on the signage or permit. A PARKING CHARGE OF 100 GBP IS DUE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF THE DATE OF ISSUE. Reduced amount of 60 blah blah I'm sure you all know the rest.

    Other details:

    I'm visiting the UK and staying at my brother in law's place in St Albans (while he's out of the country), and he lent me a Resident Permit sticker. In the residential complex there's overground parking space, but for only 25 or so cars (there's at least 200 apartments there!). I've parked my rental there before with no problems. But then on the 26th I couldn't find any space overground, so I went into the underground, which I thought residents could park in. The only sign where I parked says 'No Contractor Parking' or some such. It does say Private Parking when you enter the lot, but when you enter the entire residential complex it says Resident Parking only, which I assumed meant Private Parking = Residents Parking. As I had a Residents sticker, I thought it wouldn't be a problem. FYI my brother in law doesn't have a car so he doesn't know the rules, he just handed me the sticker and told me I can park with that displayed.

    As I am not a UK resident, and I'm about to leave the UK in 2 days, here are the options I'm considering:

    1- Pay the 'reduced' 60 pounds for both tickets, and sleep easy knowing I don't have to deal with this again (yes yes, I've read all the posts mocking the idiots that pay these things!). I'm not partial to this option though.

    2- Cancel my credit card when I get home, so the rental company cannot charge me once they inevitably pay the PCN (repercussions? I'll never be able to rent from Easirent again or what?)

    3- Tell the rental company I've been issued a PCN and that it is NOT a ticket, and that they should not pay it (though I'm sure they will, and then tack on some sort of admin/fine fee, 50 pounds if I'm not mistaken).

    4- I don't see me going through the appeal process as I'm not a UK resident. What other options do I have?

    PS. After I saw the PCNs and got in my car, I noticed there was a film of grease or some such on the windshield (on the outside), and on the entire right side of the car, which initially looked like the windows were fogging up, but after unsuccessfully trying to use the wiper and the heater, I went out to wipe it by hand, and I could smell and feel the thing. What is that and where did it come from?? Made visibility horrible, and wont get off no matter how many times I use the wipers. I'll try using vinegar next...The PPC wouldn't have sprayed something on my car in spite would they?? They did leave nice stickers on my windshield ('You're Parked Here ILLEGALLY')...
    Last edited by juxepe; 30-06-2017 at 3:05 PM.
Page 3
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 1st Aug 17, 8:31 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe

    a landholder cancellation was always your best option, its now your only option , or let this "time out" after 6 years

    welcome to our world
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thanks for the welcome

    6 years or 6 months?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Aug 17, 8:32 PM
    • 14,531 Posts
    • 22,858 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    They have six months to access data from the DVLA - but, one pass only. They've had it!

    They have 6 years to pursue through the county court.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 01-08-2017 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Fat finger typing amend! :)
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 2nd Aug 17, 6:52 AM
    • 497 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    They are only allowed to access the DVLA database with "reasonable cause"; that is, either to chase the Keeper under POFA2012, or to ask the Keeper to identify the Driver so they can be chased

    You have already said you were the driver, and so NEITHER option is available to them. (A Keeper can only be liable in cases where the Drivers identity and serviceable address are not known to the parking company; they DO know these) If they DO access the DVLA, then a formal complaint MUST be made to the DVLA asking that the parking firms access is revoked.

    As Easirent call these invoiced "fines", and are clearly not charging a fair administrative cost (it takes no more than 5 minutes of effort to send the details out to the parking company), a charge back dispute woudl be easy, SHOULD the DVLA be contacted.

    You stated the correspondence was going to your brothers address - will he have mail forwarding in place for e.g. 6 months, to catch any letters after the fact?
    Last edited by nosferatu1001; 02-08-2017 at 6:53 AM. Reason: Added detail on why POFA route wasnt avaialble.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 2nd Aug 17, 8:01 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    They have six months to access data from the DVLA - but, one pass only. They've had it!

    They have 6 years to pursue through the county court.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Excellent, I don't think I ought to be worried about them pursuing me via the county court - seeing as I'm not a UK resident or citizen? Once the 6 months pass I will mail them with my Canadian address, so hopefully that deters them from pursuing it any further.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 2nd Aug 17, 8:03 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    You stated the correspondence was going to your brothers address - will he have mail forwarding in place for e.g. 6 months, to catch any letters after the fact?
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Thanks for that, makes sense.

    I'll make sure he does!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Aug 17, 9:05 AM
    • 14,531 Posts
    • 22,858 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Excellent, I don't think I ought to be worried about them pursuing me via the county court - seeing as I'm not a UK resident or citizen? Once the 6 months pass I will mail them with my Canadian address, so hopefully that deters them from pursuing it any further.
    Originally posted by juxepe
    I understand you can't be pursued, but it won't stop the juggernaut roboclaim industry issuing court papers. All they will see is a name and address. If the case is not defended there will be a default judgment against the name and address.

    I understand that credit agencies can tag an address as having a default judgment against it, giving the residents of the address some issues, hence my suggestion you check back here with us if court papers are issued. It will be better killed off at that stage.

    Just 'safety first' advice, rather than anything untoward for you to concern yourself with right now.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 2nd Aug 17, 4:38 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    I understand you can't be pursued, but it won't stop the juggernaut roboclaim industry issuing court papers. All they will see is a name and address. If the case is not defended there will be a default judgment against the name and address.

    I understand that credit agencies can tag an address as having a default judgment against it, giving the residents of the address some issues, hence my suggestion you check back here with us if court papers are issued. It will be better killed off at that stage.

    Just 'safety first' advice, rather than anything untoward for you to concern yourself with right now.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Understood, thanks, Umkomaas. This was an interesting ride thus far, learned quite a bit.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 12th Sep 17, 1:19 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    So bad news, I just got charged the 55 pound admin fee from Easirent and they emailed me a scanned copy of the letter the Parking company sent them, demanding payment etc.

    I initially suspected that they decided to look up the DVLA info for the 2nd PCN, as they quoted back to me my 1st PCN's reference number only in the letter rejecting my appeal. However, the letter they sent to Easirent refers to the 1st PCN's reference number. Does this mean Easirent might get another letter demanding payment for the 2nd PCN, and I'll get another 55 pound charge?

    So now the Parking company has my Canadian address details - should I be worried? Should I still ignore their demands?

    I don't think Easirent will pay the PCN and then charge me, as it says in the letter the parking company has 'the full right to recover from the driver so much of that parking charge amount as remains unpaid.'

    If I'm not mistaken, I cannot contest the 55 pound 'admin fee' from Easirent as it's stipulated in the rental contract. Next steps?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Sep 17, 1:30 PM
    • 14,531 Posts
    • 22,858 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So now the Parking company has my Canadian address details - should I be worried? Should I still ignore their demands?
    Nothing to worry about. Ignore any PPC demands. They're unlikely to write to you in Canada.

    If I'm not mistaken, I cannot contest the 55 pound 'admin fee' from Easirent as it's stipulated in the rental contract.
    Why not? What exactly is stipulated? Nothing about private parking charge invoices I bet?

    Next steps?
    1. As this is a hire car case you need to be aware of the understanding hire car companies (via their Trade Association - the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association) and the BPA have reached. There may be something in it that might help you?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9b0iavad3aqeh28/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf?dl=0

    2. Contact your credit card company and put the charge into dispute. Do you have any advisory organisations in Canada to help you on the credit card dispute front?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Sep 17, 1:52 PM
    • 497 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Indeed, have you checked EXACTLY what Easirents conditions state? I bet they dont cover private parking charges. if they dont, then they have no right to pass that charge on.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Sep 17, 2:56 PM
    • 3,621 Posts
    • 1,836 Thanks
    KeithP
    So bad news, I just got charged the 55 pound admin fee from Easirent and they emailed me a scanned copy of the letter the Parking company sent them, demanding payment etc.
    Originally posted by juxepe
    Have another read of post#43.

    Clearly the PPC have abused the process by asking the DVLA for keeper details when they already had the driver details.
    .
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 12th Sep 17, 8:40 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    Indeed, have you checked EXACTLY what Easirents conditions state? I bet they dont cover private parking charges. if they dont, then they have no right to pass that charge on.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Unfortunately they do according to this:

    https://www.easirent.com/penalty-charge-notice/

    I'll dispute it with them but knowing how they are I doubt they'd cooperate.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 12th Sep 17, 8:48 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    Have another read of post#43.

    Clearly the PPC have abused the process by asking the DVLA for keeper details when they already had the driver details.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks, I'm trying to find the right contact info to contact the DVLA to complain about the parking company, but for the life of me I can't find it, only how to complain against the DVLA. Can someone help/send the link/point me in the right direction?

    EDIT: I think I found it, foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    I'll write them an email letting them know of all the details and referring to what nosferatu1001 said in his post #43, attaching my appeal letter and their response.

    Any other things I ought to mention? Do I complain about Easirent's outrageous fee?
    Last edited by juxepe; 12-09-2017 at 8:54 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Sep 17, 8:53 PM
    • 3,621 Posts
    • 1,836 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thanks, I'm trying to find the right contact info to contact the DVLA to complain about the parking company, but for the life of me I can't find it, only how to complain against the DVLA. Can someone help/send the link/point me in the right direction?
    Originally posted by juxepe
    you should report this to David Dunford of the DVLA and ask him to investigate.

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    .
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 12th Sep 17, 9:25 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    you should report this to David Dunford of the DVLA and ask him to investigate.

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thank you!
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 12th Sep 17, 10:42 PM
    • 2,306 Posts
    • 2,811 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    "Many people are under the misconception that an FPN (issued by a privately owned car park) is different to a PCN (issued by the government) and believe they can simply not pay for a parking ticket. This is incorrect, and although Easirent will only take the cost of the admin fee, it remains your responsibility to pay the FPN we pass to you. The same applies to PCNs such as exceeding the speed limit, entering a bus lane, stopping on a red route, etc."




    you really need to read the link

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9b0iavad3aqeh28/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf?dl=0

    that Umkomaas gave you ....

    good luck

    Ralph
    • Edna Basher
    • By Edna Basher 12th Sep 17, 11:10 PM
    • 583 Posts
    • 1,516 Thanks
    Edna Basher
    Unfortunately they do according to this:

    https://www.easirent.com/penalty-charge-notice/
    Originally posted by juxepe
    Your link leads to what looks like an Easirent blog in which they attempt to explain all about private parking charges and penalty charges issued by statutory bodies. This is what they have to say:

    Parking Eye

    During your hire, you may need to use a private car park that requires you to Pay and Display. Parking Eye are one of the largest companies who run these car parks and if you use one without paying, a fine will be due. Using ANPR cameras at the entrances and exits, Parking Eye issues fines on the basis of a contract with the motorist, which is set out via the signage at the site. If, for example you are staying at a hotel and fail to register your number plate at the front desk, they have the right to charge you for using their car park overnight without paid permission.

    Many people are under the misconception that an FPN (issued by a privately owned car park) is different to a PCN (issued by the government) and believe they can simply not pay for a parking ticket. This is incorrect, and although Easirent will only take the cost of the admin fee, it remains your responsibility to pay the FPN we pass to you. The same applies to PCNs such as exceeding the speed limit, entering a bus lane, stopping on a red route, etc.
    Oh dear, it seems that Easirent are under the misconception that ParkingEye and other Private Parking Companies have the right to issue fines. They are also under the misconception that the hirer has a responsibility to pay these charges (i.e. no mention of being able to challenge them).

    The contents of this blog do not form part of their terms and conditions which can be found here: https://www.easirent.com/rental-terms/

    Traffic and Parking Fines: If the vehicle receives a fine during the rental period, you will be responsible for full payment of the fine as well as a £55 traffic fine management fee per fine. This includes, but is not restricted to, parking offences, speeding fines, congestion charges, bus lane offences, traffic signal offences, toll road offences, etc…
    The Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you the right to interpret unclear contract terms in a way that is most favourable to you. Your vehicle has most certainly not received a fine in which case you can reasonably argue that Easirent's contract does not entitle them to charge you an admin fee.
    Last edited by Edna Basher; 13-09-2017 at 12:25 AM.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 13th Sep 17, 6:59 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe

    The Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you the right to interpret unclear contract terms in a way that is most favourable to you. Your vehicle has most certainly not received a fine in which case you can reasonably argue that Easirent's contract does not entitle them to charge you an admin fee.
    Originally posted by Edna Basher
    So I've had this conversation with them over the phone, and they only keep repeating that their leasing company charges Easirent 55 pounds, which they then pass on to the customer. I'll try to follow up further when I get home from work.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Sep 17, 10:44 AM
    • 497 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Of course they keep repeating that.
    Dont call, email or letters. You need to get this in writing.
    You formally dispute their right to charge this to you, their contract with the leasing companyt is of no concern to you, YOUR contract gives them NO right to charge you
    You then state that if this is not resolved you will initiate a chargeback on your credit card, and will supply the same terms and the status of such to your CC company. this will cost Easirent far more than £55.
    • juxepe
    • By juxepe 16th Sep 17, 8:37 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    juxepe
    I've sent them a few emails but no responses now. David from the DVLA didn't respond to my complaint email either. Let's see where it goes.

    Regarding the PCNs, I shouldn't be worried about getting contacted in Canada then - even if I do I guess they won't really chase, and I'll just ignore. Easirent charged me 55 pounds, I'll try to get it back, worst case have a talk with my credit card company soon. All in all, not bad. Learned a lot and happy to not have given in to the PPC industry of the UK. Thank you all for your great help. I'll keep you posted regarding any future updates, and will contribute more to the forums where I can have an input - maybe another foreign visitor like me needs help
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