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  • FIRST POST
    • droiderm
    • By droiderm 28th Jun 17, 9:27 PM
    • 712Posts
    • 278Thanks
    droiderm
    Joint Mortgage and Estate
    • #1
    • 28th Jun 17, 9:27 PM
    Joint Mortgage and Estate 28th Jun 17 at 9:27 PM
    Hi all,

    Looking for a little bit of direction. My mother in law has recently died, and we are getting around to dealing with her estate.

    It seems a bit overwhelming, and have lots of questions. My wife is going to apply to be an administrator (we don't believe there is a will).

    Working out the value of the estate is going to be a little difficult, partly because we live a few hours away and don't have any documentation yet.

    We believe she has little assets :

    A small life insurance policy, around 9k.
    Possessions and some jewelry probably of little value.
    A pension, we believe she has death in service benefit, but we don't yet know the value.
    We don't know the value of any bank accounts/savings but expect there won't be anything of significance.

    She has some debt, up to now we only know of a CCJ of around 16k. We don't know the detail but it may be secured in some way on a property she was jointly on the mortgage of.

    She lived in rented accommodation, and had fairly recently split with her partner (not married) . He still lives in the property and is jointly on the mortgage.

    I have read that the mortgage debt (and or any equity in the home) will pass to him, and not be part of the estate?

    We don't know if their is a separate life insurance policy covering the mortgage, and we don't think if there was, her ex partner would be forthcoming. All we can do is ask him, and if he says no , are we expected to, or can we do any further investigation? I believe this would form part of her estate?

    Regarding the CCJ, does that form as a debt in her estate?

    Thanks for your help!
Page 2
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 5th Jul 17, 2:10 AM
    • 37,484 Posts
    • 33,793 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    The way I read it, there is an EX partner, and a boyfriend at the time of death, and it is the boyfriend not the ex who has moved in - maybe the OP could confirm this.

    If the boyfriend has moved in, he may or may not have the right to do so, depending on whether or not mum was the sole owner of the house, or whether the boyfriend owns part of it!
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    Sorry I've re-read the first post on the thread, where mum is living in rented accommodation, and a recent ex-partner is living in a house with a mortgage. So this boyfriend has appeared at a later stage, and it's not clear to me who is living where any more!
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  • Land Registry representative
    Assume nothing! Give the LR a call and ask them to confirm which it is.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Perhaps irrelevant now as the thread has moved on but posted in case others read it

    The register is not the definitive detail as to whether joint owners are JTs or TIC. The register may offer an indication but it is no more than that.

    Our online guidance explains more.

    Most people look for a form A restriction on the title to indicate that they are TIC. If there isn't one, as in this case it seems, then they must be JTs that is not so.

    A form A can be added for a variety of reasons including by default if no details as to how they wish to hold it or conflicting details are provided. Similarly a trust may have been entered into or the joint tenanancy severed but no application was made to register the form A

    The register may point in one direction but it is not definitive on how the beneficial ownership is held.
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    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 5th Jul 17, 8:06 AM
    • 29,122 Posts
    • 17,416 Thanks
    getmore4less
    the house position needs some clarification .

    Where there is a secured debt the house is not part of the estate just the equity is.

    Secured debts and the security(property) are effectively tied together.

    there is also the concept of distributable estate and taxable estate.

    the beneficial interest in the property is taxable and that, in the absence of any other documented split, will be 50% of the equity, type of ownership makes no difference.

    where the ownership is TIC the equity forms part of the distributable estate
    where ownership is joint then survivorship kicks in than the other tenant(s) get the share.

    Typically what happens is the debt stays with the property so even with TIC the share owned by the debt can pass to the other person if they take on the debt. similarly with survivorship if they want the property they take on the debts the estate is not obliged to pay any of it.

    there are variations, even with joint tenants an estate can retain a beneficial interest if it pays off debt.

    ...................................
    For an estate that is potentially insolvent care needs to be taken before getting involved and where the only substantial asset is likely to be a house jointly owned with debt then getting the status and intentions of the other parties is essential.

    If the numbers don't add up to make it worth while dealing with the estate walk away and let the other owner sort out the house.
    • droiderm
    • By droiderm 5th Jul 17, 9:47 AM
    • 712 Posts
    • 278 Thanks
    droiderm
    Just to clarify it was a rented property and I think, but can't be sure that he paid the rent anyway
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 5th Jul 17, 10:39 AM
    • 29,122 Posts
    • 17,416 Thanks
    getmore4less
    She has some debt, up to now we only know of a CCJ of around 16k. We don't know the detail but it may be secured in some way on a property she was jointly on the mortgage of.
    what about this one?
    • droiderm
    • By droiderm 11th Jul 17, 8:10 PM
    • 712 Posts
    • 278 Thanks
    droiderm
    what about this one?
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    What about what one?
    Sorry just got back to this.

    We have an appointment with the solicitor next week to go through it.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 11th Jul 17, 11:44 PM
    • 29,122 Posts
    • 17,416 Thanks
    getmore4less
    What about what one?
    Sorry just got back to this.

    We have an appointment with the solicitor next week to go through it.
    Originally posted by droiderm
    you are talking about a mortgaged property and a rented one
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