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  • FIRST POST
    • pokerpodge2005
    • By pokerpodge2005 27th Jun 17, 1:35 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 1Thanks
    pokerpodge2005
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 27th Jun 17, 1:35 AM
    Smart Meters 27th Jun 17 at 1:35 AM
    I have been made eligible by my supplier EDF to have my PAYG meters changed to smart meter, but I have been reading a lot about smet 1 meters being installed until smet 2s become available and that the smet 1s can become dumb if changing suppliers in the future, so my question is, does anyone know exactly when smet 2 meters will be available, as I am unable to find out an exact date in which these will be available, all I can find is that ofgem state that smet 1 meters being installed after the 28th October 2017 will no longer to count towards the 2020.

    kind regards

    Gary
Page 1
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 27th Jun 17, 9:11 AM
    • 625 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    House Martin
    • #2
    • 27th Jun 17, 9:11 AM
    • #2
    • 27th Jun 17, 9:11 AM
    Latest electric/gas smart meters in both credit and prepayment by Landis and Gyr are future proof upgradeable over the air and will work in both SMETS1 and 2..Not sure which meters EDF are using because they have nt been fitting smarts for too long but BG, the UKs largest supplier,who have having been fitting smarts for 10 years are using them.You could enquire with EDF why they do not fit similar meters now if they are nt.
    This is a money saving forum and I urge you do ditch prepayment meters, fixed at high standard/variable tariffs, and see how much you can save per week by switching tariffs to a one year fixed deal on a direct debit with either EDF or the whole market.The Cheap Energy Club comparison website on MSE also give cashbacks on many of the suppliers.
    Smart meters are mainly benefitting suppliers so I don t think its worth taking them too seriously in use in the home as an energy saving device.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 27th Jun 17, 9:13 AM
    • 6,284 Posts
    • 3,988 Thanks
    Ken68
    • #3
    • 27th Jun 17, 9:13 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Jun 17, 9:13 AM
    I can still read the meters remotely using SMETS 1 after moving suppliers.
    No other functions though.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 27th Jun 17, 9:24 AM
    • 3,257 Posts
    • 1,752 Thanks
    lstar337
    • #4
    • 27th Jun 17, 9:24 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Jun 17, 9:24 AM
    Best to ask EDF what they would be fitting.

    They told me they were future proof, but then stumbled when I asked if they were SMETS 1 or 2. Once they realised I knew what I was talking about they admitted that they were SMETS1 and that it was not possible to update them over the air.

    I told them to call me when they had SMETS2 meters and I would happily accept them.

    IF, I had accepted EDF's offer I would have had the meters 2 months before they would be back to dumb. EDF no longer have a competitive tariff for me, so I have initiated a switch.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 27th Jun 17, 10:26 AM
    • 2,869 Posts
    • 5,181 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #5
    • 27th Jun 17, 10:26 AM
    • #5
    • 27th Jun 17, 10:26 AM
    Hi Gary,

    Unfortunately I don't think anyone will be able to answer your question with absolute certainty. The smart meter programme is in a state of flux and there is uncertainty in relation to just about every aspect of it.

    Latest electric/gas smart meters in both credit and prepayment by Landis and Gyr are future proof upgradeable over the air and will work in both SMETS1 and 2.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    For reasons given below I would be very wary of anyone telling you that something is "future proof upgradeable over the air". Anything, especially technology - and particularly communications technology - is only 'future proof' until someone decides to make a change which makes it redundant. "Future proof" is just marketing spin.

    They told me they were future proof, but then stumbled when I asked if they were SMETS 1 or 2. Once they realised I knew what I was talking about they admitted that they were SMETS1 and that it was not possible to update them over the air.
    ...
    IF, I had accepted EDF's offer I would have had the meters 2 months before they would be back to dumb.
    Originally posted by lstar337
    As a consumer you have little say about the type of meter fitted. Even if a call-centre operator promises you on their mother's life that your meter will be SMETS2, if the fitter comes out and installs a SMETS1 meter you have zero comeback on the supplier. You are stuck with it unless you are willing to pay for a meter exchange at some point in the future, or until the supplier decides to change it for their own reasons.

    Some suppliers will have stocks of SMETS1 meters waiting to be installed, and some might even provide you with a pre-used SMETS1 meter. The situation at the moment is fluid and there is little certainty about what will happen with SMETS1 meters longer-term.

    Whilst there is this uncertainty, if the ability to retain smart functionality is important to you if you switch, then it makes sense to wait until there is clarity. If having smart functionality is not important to you - then why would anyone want a smart meter in the first place?

    Smart meters are mainly benefitting suppliers so I don t think its worth taking them too seriously in use in the home as an energy saving device.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    I totally, completely, utterly, without reservation and wholeheartedly agree with this point.

    Smart meters primarily benefit the suppliers (and the manufacturers). The benefits to the consumer are margin at best, and zero if the meter goes dumb as a result of a switch (or a technology change).

    Unless you are desperate to have a smart meter then the best thing to do is to wait a while until it is clear what the situation is, and/or it is absolutely certain you will get a SMETS2 meter.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • pokerpodge2005
    • By pokerpodge2005 12th Jul 17, 7:10 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    pokerpodge2005
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:10 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:10 AM
    Firstly Thank you all for your replys


    Secondly I am wanting off the pre-payment meters, and have contacted EDF regarding having a credit meter installed.


    I can have the gas transferred to credit meter within 2/3 weeks, but the problem is that EDF have no engineer visits available to fit a new electric meter in for the next 3 months and even the electricity booking team said its highly unlikely they will have for months, which is when one of the customer service team made me eligible for smart meters due to this problem.


    For me personally I'm thinking of just changing the gas to a normal credit meter as that's the biggest expense especially during winter at £120-£160 a month, the electricity is costing me between £40-£60 a month, so I don't see much point in changing the electricity.


    the dilemma I have is that EDF have quoted me £80 a month if I transfer both gas and electric to smart meters, so I am after the savings as currently my gas and electric in summer is costing me about £80 a month anyway.


    I was merely enquiring about smart meters, as I have heard the smet1s become dumb if changing supplier in the future(being saving savvy myself ), meaning manual readings which seems to defeat the object really, whereas the smet2s seem to not have this problem.


    Kind Regards


    Gary
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 12th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • 2,869 Posts
    • 5,181 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #7
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    ...the dilemma I have is that EDF have quoted me £80 a month if I transfer both gas and electric to smart meters, so I am after the savings as currently my gas and electric in summer is costing me about £80 a month anyway.
    Originally posted by pokerpodge2005
    Do you mean you get the £80/month if you switch to credit meters, or does it specifically have to be smart meters to get this price?

    Or are you just getting smart meters because it will take too long to get standard credit meters installed?
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 12th Jul 17, 2:06 PM
    • 3,823 Posts
    • 1,518 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #8
    • 12th Jul 17, 2:06 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jul 17, 2:06 PM
    ...

    Secondly I am wanting off the pre-payment meters, and have contacted EDF regarding having a credit meter installed.


    I can have the gas transferred to credit meter within 2/3 weeks,...
    Originally posted by pokerpodge2005
    According to the information they provided to MSE

    No credit check, but you must repay any outstanding debt first, at least three months before requesting to switch meters.
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/switch-prepaid-gas-electricity

    (I've heard that from other sources too in the past, perhaps direct from EDF?)
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 12th Jul 17, 8:30 PM
    • 1,194 Posts
    • 180 Thanks
    littlerock
    • #9
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:30 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:30 PM
    my electric meter is in basement where no signals are available. (we cannot even get WiFi or phone signal at back of house let alone in cellar. ) EDF who have previously surveyed my cellar and agreed cannot install a smart a meter due to no signal, regularly send me mail shots saying government has told them everyone must be converted to smart meters by 2020 and can they come and fit mine please.

    I regularly phone them and explain why it would be pointless and they agree and promise to endorse my account record to say this. Now they have strated up again. Your ,electric meter needs replacing as it is old ( no it is not, and it is working fine but it is not a smart meter ) so we need to come and install a smart meter to replace it. They are now harassing me by email.

    Do I just let them come and find out the hard way? or would that be storing up more grief for future?
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 12th Jul 17, 11:25 PM
    • 625 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    House Martin
    Let them fit the smart meter, it will be a better dumb meter than the cheap £5 Ampy one they would install.BG fit the Landis and Gyr e470 meters which work ok in my cellar and thousands of others I have seen..There are ways round boosting a low signal which they could try before admitting defeat.
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 13th Jul 17, 12:20 AM
    • 1,194 Posts
    • 180 Thanks
    littlerock
    This is EDF they surveyed my cellar about 18 months ago and said not enough signal.
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 13th Jul 17, 12:22 AM
    • 1,194 Posts
    • 180 Thanks
    littlerock
    This is EDF. They surveyed my cellar around 18 months ago and said not enough signal for a smart meter to work.
    • pokerpodge2005
    • By pokerpodge2005 13th Jul 17, 12:27 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    pokerpodge2005
    Hi All and thanks for all the replys


    I spoke with EDF and the £80 a month is a fixed month amount on their blueprice fix promise plan till june 2018 if I wish to take it, my bills would be spread out over 12 months @ £80 a month on direct debit, based on 10500kwh gas 3500kwh electric usage which they took from the meters when I transferred both meters to them in april.


    To get off the pre-payments and go direct debit, I would need to have been a EDF customer for 30 days and then they could change me over to credit meters.


    I rang EDF on the 31st day and asked for my meters to be changed to credit meters, so I was transferred to the gas and electric department, the gas department advised me I can have a normal credit meter in 2/3 weeks, but when I spoke to the electric department they didn't have any engineer visits available for 6 months, but to ring back a few days later to check for cancellations.


    so i rang back a few days later, and there were still no electric visits available, I did this a few times until one customer service adviser told me that they could make me eligible for smart meters and this would take a week or so.


    so I waited and received a letter a few weeks ago, advising me that im eligible now, and to book an engineer visit to fit the smart meters.


    the problems with smart meters is literally putting me off the whole idea and i'm thinking of just transferring my gas over to normal credit meters and hoping I can get a electric credit meter in the future.


    kind regards


    Gary
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 13th Jul 17, 8:24 AM
    • 625 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    House Martin
    Gary
    Its more important for you to get off prepay tariffs asap, before the winter to get onto the cheapest 1 year direct debit fix, which could be 25% less than you are paying now.Doesnt really matter if EDFs smart meter doesnt work smart with other suppliers for the time being..The smaller suppliers are hopeless at fitting smarts anyway and could be 10 years before they get their act together.Meantime you can be doing a yearly switch to whoever offers the lowest tariffs and be saving hundreds, so accept EDFs smart meter, it is normal credit meter when you leave EDF as you surely will when you look at the latest deals on a comp site...I did the same from BG to Robin Hood Energy earlier this year to save 25% on BGs best fix.
    Last edited by House Martin; 13-07-2017 at 8:43 AM.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Jul 17, 8:52 AM
    • 2,869 Posts
    • 5,181 Thanks
    EachPenny
    To get off the pre-payments and go direct debit, I would need to have been a EDF customer for 30 days and then they could change me over to credit meters.

    I rang EDF on the 31st day and asked for my meters to be changed to credit meters, so I was transferred to the gas and electric department, the gas department advised me I can have a normal credit meter in 2/3 weeks, but when I spoke to the electric department they didn't have any engineer visits available for 6 months, but to ring back a few days later to check for cancellations.
    ...
    the problems with smart meters is literally putting me off the whole idea and i'm thinking of just transferring my gas over to normal credit meters and hoping I can get a electric credit meter in the future.
    Originally posted by pokerpodge2005
    Your situation is a little bit different to the normal position of someone being told they are getting smart meters. You are one of the few people who could genuinely save money by having a smart meter fitted sooner rather than later, albeit the savings only apply for the time period between the meter being fitted and the date you would have been able to get a standard credit meter fitted if you wait.

    At the end of the day the choice is yours. If saving money for a few months is important to you then getting whatever meter they can fit asap might make sense. But the problems with the current generation of smart meters remain, despite the protests of some posters that it is all being made up by 'OAP's with nothing better to do.

    As a consumer I'd be asking myself why EdF were so keen to give me a smart meter, and why they are making it so difficult to have a standard one. Swapping a PP meter for a standard credit one is a simple 5 minute task, fitting a smart meter takes much longer. If it were me I would be complaining to the highest levels of EdF about the delay in getting standard credit meters installed, and be prepared to go to the ombudsman and/or my MP. Energy companies should prioritise swapping PP meters for credit ones, regardless of the type of meter you prefer - after all they do claim it is your choice whether or not to have a smart meter.

    In making a decision you have lots of information available to you. Personally, I'd question the advice of someone who appears to be a cheerleader for the company they may (or may not) work for (it is all a bit confusing) and why they feel it necessary to denigrate the suggestions of others using personal comments of the 'OAP' kind.

    Gary, there are no real problems with smart meters.We have a few posters on here who have made it their hobby to denigrate and run every smart meter positive down and find some negatives to boast about. At first it was electromagnetic radiation which was their number one negative which they now have forgot about.Hacking security was another pathetic attempt too.They are left with just the SMETS1 and SMETS2 excuse as their last stand even though the latest meters available work in SMETS1 and 2
    BG have fitted a few million smart meters in the last 10 years with virtually no problems whatsoever. I have been reading their meters all this time and can t remember any user have a problem.They are just a little surprised that BG want to access the meters every few years even though they work faultlessly, and all the latest smart meters they should be fitting operate DEFINITELY in SMETS2 (Landis and Gyr zigbee meters ) whatever some posters might infer in their little anti smart hobby they have developed.Please don t lose money by listening to a couple of outsiders and their latest hobby.They are just a couple of OAPs with nothing better to moan about.
    ....
    Originally posted by House Martin
    Unless, for example, you count the tiny problem of several million meters not being interoperable with other suppliers systems (a bit of a snag given the encouragement we get to switch) - requiring a costly and as yet undetermined remedial action.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • pooch
    • By pooch 13th Jul 17, 10:13 AM
    • 716 Posts
    • 341 Thanks
    pooch
    my electric meter is in basement where no signals are available. (we cannot even get WiFi or phone signal at back of house let alone in cellar. ) EDF who have previously surveyed my cellar and agreed cannot install a smart a meter due to no signal, regularly send me mail shots saying government has told them everyone must be converted to smart meters by 2020 and can they come and fit mine please.

    I regularly phone them and explain why it would be pointless and they agree and promise to endorse my account record to say this. Now they have strated up again. Your ,electric meter needs replacing as it is old ( no it is not, and it is working fine but it is not a smart meter ) so we need to come and install a smart meter to replace it. They are now harassing me by email.

    Do I just let them come and find out the hard way? or would that be storing up more grief for future?
    Originally posted by littlerock
    Your earlier threaed about this can be found here
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5678568

    Best to stick to that one thread or you will only confuse yourself even more
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 13th Jul 17, 11:02 AM
    • 625 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    House Martin
    Your situation is a little bit different to the normal position of someone being told they are getting smart meters. You are one of the few people who could genuinely save money by having a smart meter fitted sooner rather than later, albeit the savings only apply for the time period between the meter being fitted and the date you would have been able to get a standard credit meter fitted if you wait.

    At the end of the day the choice is yours. If saving money for a few months is important to you then getting whatever meter they can fit asap might make sense. But the problems with the current generation of smart meters remain, despite the protests of some posters that it is all being made up by 'OAP's with nothing better to do.

    As a consumer I'd be asking myself why EdF were so keen to give me a smart meter, and why they are making it so difficult to have a standard one. Swapping a PP meter for a standard credit one is a simple 5 minute task, fitting a smart meter takes much longer. If it were me I would be complaining to the highest levels of EdF about the delay in getting standard credit meters installed, and be prepared to go to the ombudsman and/or my MP. Energy companies should prioritise swapping PP meters for credit ones, regardless of the type of meter you prefer - after all they do claim it is your choice whether or not to have a smart meter.

    In making a decision you have lots of information available to you. Personally, I'd question the advice of someone who appears to be a cheerleader for the company they may (or may not) work for (it is all a bit confusing) and why they feel it necessary to denigrate the suggestions of others using personal comments of the 'OAP' kind.



    Unless, for example, you count the tiny problem of several million meters not being interoperable with other suppliers systems (a bit of a snag given the encouragement we get to switch) - requiring a costly and as yet undetermined remedial action.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Did nt you know EachPenny, BG are unique in that they have the largest share of the market by a country mile..They have a very loyal customer base who stick with them regardless of costs..Maybe its because they are still thought of as the "gas board " or the old uns like the moniker "British Gas "..I know what the average customer base is because I ve been chatting to them for the last 20 years. They are mostly.OAPs, like me..I work for BG and others still on agency work now on a "as when required basis ", usually on Friday and Saturday when short staffed, because I retired a few months ago..nothing confusing about that except to you maybe
    BG were the first to fit smart meters because it deterred customers from switching and losing the smart function of their fit and forget meters accurately billed year in year out..That counts a lot..I admit that the suppliers still fit useless SMETS 1 s now, when they do not have to fit them, they could buy the latest SMETS2 meters but they have taken the lead of BG entrapping customers, they think, in their smart meters in a bid to keep them from switching..Only BG have that loyal customer base though..EDF dont have it. and I would advise the OP to accept the latest smart meter by EDF even if its an out of date SMETS1 meter and use it as a "dumb " meter .It could be many years down the line before someone turns up with a SMETS2 compliant meter, meantime OP is losing a possible £200 quid a year on good fixed tariff deals .Its no big deal to have a dumb meter anyway for a few years so long as at least 4 reads a year are sent in.
    swapping smart meters is nt much different from dumb meters except the fitter has to pair the IHD and also pair the gas meter with the electric meter .I think it would probably be an extra 10 mins if all go`s well on a standard dumb meter swap.They both take much longer than 5 mins each whatever.. I d say 30 mins for a switch with no probs, thats how long my electric meter took, same for the gas smart with system supposed to be purged after the switch.
    Last edited by House Martin; 14-07-2017 at 8:17 AM.
    • SpotlandRules
    • By SpotlandRules 13th Jul 17, 3:32 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    SpotlandRules
    The only thing I use my smart meter for is to take daily readings, to ensure my direct debit is on target.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Jul 17, 9:25 PM
    • 2,869 Posts
    • 5,181 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Did nt you know EachPenny, BG are unique in that they have the largest share of the market by a country mile..They have a very loyal customer base who stick with them regardless of costs..
    Originally posted by House Martin
    Kind of odd that someone working for BG talks of their 'loyal customer base' but then in the next sentence makes an accusation that BG are 'entrapping customers'

    ...but they have taken the lead of BG entrapping customers, they think, in their smart meters in a bid to keep them from switching..Only BG have that loyal customer base though...
    Originally posted by House Martin
    I would advise the OP to accept the latest smart meter by EDF even if its an out of date SMETS1 meter and use it as a "dumb " meter .It could be many years down the line before someone turns up with a SMETS2 compliant meter, meantime OP is losing a possible £200 quid a year on good fixed tariff deals .Its no big deal to have a dumb meter anyway for a few years so long as at least 4 reads a year are sent in.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    The OP would only lose a 'possible £200' per year for as many additional weeks it takes to get a standard credit meter versus a smart meter. It is up to the OP to make that call - how much are they willing to pay in order to wait the extra time needed to get a non-smart meter.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 13th Jul 17, 9:58 PM
    • 625 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    House Martin
    No, he wants to accept the smart meter and leave EDF pronto for the smaller suppliers with his new smart meter now acting as a "dumb " meter , and dont mess about waiting for EDF to muck him about waiting for a credit meter. They obviously are playing the same entrapment game as BG play. EDF will probably install a SMETS1 Landys and Gyr e470 electric smart meter which is accepted by everyone else as a dumb meter.The big 6 are being thrashed by the little guys and have been for some time.
    Eachpenny, I can t see the connection with me commenting on BGs well known loyal customer base and my accusations of slightly underhand tactics by fitting useless SMETS1 still, when SMETS1 and 2 meters are all there ready to take over now. I am not interested if they claim they are "running down old stock ", fitting useless SMETS1 s... send the old ones back to Landys Gyr for the new ones which will work with anyone next year. I often have a go at BG for their little tricks they have played over the years.They are the masters when it comes to marketing..They are one of the most expensive suppliers but still claim easily the biggest share of the UK market..
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