Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • windowess
    • By windowess 26th Jun 17, 4:40 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 3Thanks
    windowess
    court claim from Civil Enforcement Ltd, urgently need help with defence 😢
    • #1
    • 26th Jun 17, 4:40 PM
    court claim from Civil Enforcement Ltd, urgently need help with defence 😢 26th Jun 17 at 4:40 PM
    Hi
    I have read through the newbie section, but still unsure wether to go to court.
    My husband parked on KFC car park and not realising he was only allowed 45min on the car park (most are usually 90 mins) he stayed 80mins. The car is registered in my name so I received a ticket for £60. I was advised to ignore it as it was unenforceable.
    I have now received a court summons to the amount of £323.05!
    Do have any grounds for defence?
    I would appreciate any advise.
    Thanks
    Last edited by windowess; 10-07-2017 at 5:31 PM.
Page 1
    • waamo
    • By waamo 26th Jun 17, 4:53 PM
    • 2,089 Posts
    • 2,495 Thanks
    waamo
    • #2
    • 26th Jun 17, 4:53 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Jun 17, 4:53 PM
    CEL don't usually follow POFA so need to chase the driver not the keeper. Luckily they don't know who that is.

    They also often drop the proceedings when they see a decent defence. Put CEL defence in the search box for recent examples.
    This space for hire.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 26th Jun 17, 4:58 PM
    • 16,483 Posts
    • 20,637 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 26th Jun 17, 4:58 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Jun 17, 4:58 PM
    you did NOT receive a "SUMMONS"

    you received an MCOL from the CCBC in Northampton

    its already a "live" court case, so you need to put in a defence similar to the dozens of others who have posted here this month
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Jun 17, 1:05 AM
    • 51,440 Posts
    • 65,043 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 28th Jun 17, 1:05 AM
    • #4
    • 28th Jun 17, 1:05 AM
    Hi
    I have read through the newbie section, but still unsure wether to go to court.
    My husband parked on KFC car park and not realising he was only allowed 45min on the car park (most are usually 90 mins) he stayed 80mins. The car is registered in my name so I received a ticket for £60. I was advised to ignore it as it was unenforceable.
    I have now received a court summons to the amount of £323.05!
    Do have any grounds for defence?
    Originally posted by windowess

    Same as the hundreds of other CEL defences on here - yes. Copy one and show us.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • windowess
    • By windowess 9th Jul 17, 9:27 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    windowess
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 9:27 AM
    Defence
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 9:27 AM
    Hi all

    Sorry for delay, I've had to cope with illness in the family so haven't had much time to put a defence together. Thank you for your patience.
    I've looked through many defences and have now drafted a defence.
    Please can you advise if this is adequate.

    I, DEFENDANT, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. The Claim Form issued on the Xxxxx by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited”.

    2. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    2.1 There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.

    2.2 This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    2.3 The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.

    2.4 The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail, and were posted to a non-existent address. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was, nor who they are claiming against; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.

    2.5 The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.

    2.6 Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

    I. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge

    ii. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)

    iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)

    iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper

    v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter

    vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    2.7 Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.

    3. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £323 for outstanding debt and damages.

    4. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred

    5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    6. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    6.1 The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
    6.2 In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
    6.3 Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    (ii) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (iii) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (iv) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    (v) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    6.4 BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.

    7. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    8. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    9. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    9.1 failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on Xxxxx

    Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.


    [My name]

    [date]



    Thank you
    • windowess
    • By windowess 9th Jul 17, 10:40 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    windowess
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 10:40 PM
    Defence for CEL, is it ok? needs to be in tomorrow
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 10:40 PM
    Same as the hundreds of other CEL defences on here - yes. Copy one and show us.

    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Defence
    Hi

    Sorry for delay, I've had to cope with illness in the family so haven't had much time to put a defence together. Thank you for your patience.
    I've looked through many defences and have now drafted a defence.
    Sorry to be a pain, but do you think this is adequate?

    I, DEFENDANT, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. The Claim Form issued on the Xxxxx by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited”.

    2. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    2.1 There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.

    2.2 This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    2.3 The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.

    2.4 The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail, and were posted to a non-existent address. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was, nor who they are claiming against; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.

    2.5 The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.

    2.6 Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

    I. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge

    ii. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)

    iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)

    iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper

    v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter

    vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    2.7 Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.

    3. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £323 for outstanding debt and damages.

    4. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred

    5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    6. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    6.1 The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
    6.2 In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
    6.3 Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    (ii) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (iii) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (iv) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    (v) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    6.4 BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.

    7. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    8. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    9. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    9.1 failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on Xxxxx

    Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.


    [My name]

    [date]



    Thank you
    28-06-2017 1:05 AM
    Coupon-mad
    Quote:
    Last edited by windowess; 10-07-2017 at 5:49 PM.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

132Posts Today

1,545Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I believe I can boldly go where no twitter poll has gone before https://t.co/HA0jC92gAK

  • OK I'm wilting to public pressure and there will be a star trek captain's poll at some point next week

  • I can get that. My order is 1. Picard 2. Janeway 3. Kirk. Too early to say where Lorca will end up (or would you? https://t.co/kawtCOe9RA

  • Follow Martin