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  • FIRST POST
    • Swinglebum
    • By Swinglebum 26th Jun 17, 4:14 AM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Swinglebum
    Taking the Clampers to Court...
    • #1
    • 26th Jun 17, 4:14 AM
    Taking the Clampers to Court... 26th Jun 17 at 4:14 AM
    I was clamped in March 2012, before the Law changed..

    I won't bore you with reasons why I was there but the Clamper nearly killed me with his wagon, so I followed him into a Car Park, to 'have a word'.

    I wasn't parked but standing next to my car; but the moment I realised that he was going to clamp me I attempted to make my escape and the chains became wrapped around my suspension, causing damage to my car.. To my surprise he managed to get the clamp and chains wrapped around my wheel within 10 seconds.. Only when I gave up did he apply the padlock..

    I called the Police, who insisted that I pay the man to remove the clamp.. Under duress, I handed £130 to the police officer, who paid the Clamper.. I then made a criminal allegation against the Clamper..

    The Police investigation concluded that the Clamper was acting 'in good faith' and on the instructions of 'The Land Owner'.. I then looked up the title of the land and it turn out that the Land was unregistered, therefore the chap who instructed the Clampers was not in fact the Land Owner.. He merely had a right of way over the unregistered land..

    As I understand the law, before October 2012, it is only the Land Owner or his appointed Agent who can instruct enforcement.. A right of way does not afford the legal right to instruct Clampers..

    In January of this year after various attempts to have a conversation with the man who instructed the Clampers, I decided to register a Small Claims Action, mostly because at least 100 other people had their cars towed away and had to pay upwards of £500 to get them back.. I think the fines could be in the order of £350k..

    I thought if I won my day in Court, all of these other people would be able to recover their costs..

    I had a pre-hearing on Friday morning.. I found the process mentally exhausting, to the point where I started doubt myself.. The Judge order an amendment and ordered me to pay £800. Not a good day..

    Am I doing the right thing taking the man who doesn't own the Land but instructed enforcement, to Court? I rather felt that he is entirely responsible for the manner in which the Clampers behaved? If he hadn't instructed them, I wouldn't have been nearly killed and there would be more happy people in the world.

    The Court has ordered me to submit my 'Pleading's' within the next 14 days.. I was held by the Clamper for 2 hours.. I suffered intimidation and my car was damaged in the process..

    All I can think of is that this was not an 'enforceable contract' as this man does not own the land over which he instructed punitive measures.

    I'm interested to know what you think?
Page 2
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 26th Jun 17, 6:44 PM
    • 13,264 Posts
    • 17,483 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Surely your argument would carry a lot more weight if you knew who actually owned the land. Not being included in the land registry only proves that it has never been registered, not who does or doesn't currently own it.

    According to the Land Registry, registration wasn't made compulsory in all areas until 1990 and then only when the land changes hands.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 26th Jun 17, 6:52 PM
    • 2,159 Posts
    • 2,581 Thanks
    waamo
    Following the criminal investigation, all private clamping and vehicle confiscation mysteriously stopped and hasn't happened again in the past 4 years..

    I clearly understand very little of the Law and the Court System and assumed that Judge Rinder would analyses the circumstances and agree that what happened should not have happened.. My claim form is somewhat embarrassing, knowing what I know now..

    If the Police had come back and said that that this chap was protecting his land and not merely the easement, I would have accepted that it was all my own fault..

    I know many believe that I should abandon, but surely if I do that I have an even greater financial liability.. At best, I don't think he'll be able to demonstrate that the £130 clamper's fee was justified, unless he can prove that he owns the land..
    Originally posted by Swinglebum
    It is not for the court to investigate. It is for you to demonstrate that what you say is correct and there are legal reasons as to why you are owed the money.

    You appear to have shown no cause of action. You "believing" he has no power to instruct clampers doesn't really cut it. You need to show its more likely than not he had no authority.

    The judge has been generous in allowing you an opportunity to amend this however I fear your research is, at best, poor and doomed to fail.
    This space for hire.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 27th Jun 17, 9:42 AM
    • 6,092 Posts
    • 5,525 Thanks
    Herzlos
    My claim form merely describes that I have researched the ownership of the land and this I don't believe that 'he' Mr Company is in a position to instruct clampers to act 'in good faith'..
    I've been given a second opportunity to get it right..
    Can you see a way ahead?
    Originally posted by Swinglebum
    You'd need to prove that the company wasn't in a position to instruct the clampers, or that there was no valid contract.

    You'd also want to try and convince the judge that the clamping wasn't valid (it was legal at the time), that you were somehow entrapped, or there was insufficient signage etc, and that you were somehow innocently caught up in it.

    You'd also need to prove the damage was caused by the clamper and not you trying to drive off whilst getting clamped.


    In short, you've had it. I'd give up and move on with life. Even if you win this (unlikely), you stand to regain a fraction of what you'll spend, and since the claim is against a ltd company they'll probably just phoenix and you get nothing. So you've got an uphill struggle for a Pyrrhic victory at best.

    Someone drove badly, you nearly got injured due to poor observation, and then in a subsequent road rage incident your own car got damaged and you had to pay to get your car released, with even the police disagreeing with you. Treat it as a learning exercise and stop wasting your time trying to get vengeance.

    I'm all for starting small claims action for clamping incidents that are still within statutes, but this is as bad a test case as possible., and if you pursue it badly you'll end off admitting to road rage to a judge.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 27th Jun 17, 10:01 AM
    • 15,768 Posts
    • 14,061 Thanks
    AdrianC
    ...and since the claim is against a ltd company they'll probably just phoenix and you get nothing.
    Originally posted by Herzlos
    TBH, I'm surprised a clamping company didn't simply get closed way back when their activities were banned.

    Someone drove badly, you nearly got injured due to poor observation, and then in a subsequent road rage incident your own car got damaged and you had to pay to get your car released...
    That's the sum of it.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 27th Jun 17, 10:18 AM
    • 3,591 Posts
    • 3,635 Thanks
    DoaM
    TBH, I'm surprised a clamping company didn't simply get closed way back when their activities were banned.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    When clamping was banned Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act came into force (October 1st 2012). This meant the clamping companies simply changed their business model from clamping to scamming registered keepers, as POFA allowed liability for parking charges to be transferred from driver to keeper (in England and Wales. Scotland and NI don't have POFA, but clamping is still banned, so these areas are less profitable for scammers).
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 27th Jun 17, 11:09 AM
    • 1,050 Posts
    • 728 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    OP - As others here have suggested I think you are leading yourself down the garden path by making the very big assumption that because the land is unregistered the clamping was unlawful. Somebody owns the land and you would have to establish that whoever authorised/ordered the clamping was not that person. (The fact that the police say it was someone enforcing an easement over the land does not mean they are correct. They are not property lawyers).


    You do not seem to know who the landowner is (or rather was) so you seem to be taking rather a large open-ended risk here. It's not advisable to start court proceedings unless you know all the answers, and you seem to actually know precious little here.


    As Waamo and others have asked, what were the particulars of your claim? What didn't the judge like?
    • Swinglebum
    • By Swinglebum 3rd Dec 17, 12:57 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Swinglebum
    They Settled out of Court
    Oh ye of little faith.. They settled out of court for £2,000.00.
    • FlameCloud
    • By FlameCloud 3rd Dec 17, 6:56 AM
    • 1,785 Posts
    • 854 Thanks
    FlameCloud
    Of course they did.
    • photome
    • By photome 3rd Dec 17, 8:11 AM
    • 12,840 Posts
    • 8,312 Thanks
    photome
    Oh ye of little faith.. They settled out of court for £2,000.00.
    Originally posted by Swinglebum
    Does that mean the floodgates are open for everyone else to claim
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 3rd Dec 17, 8:59 AM
    • 15,768 Posts
    • 14,061 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Oh ye of little faith.. They settled out of court for £2,000.00.
    Originally posted by Swinglebum
    If they settled out of court for such a substantial sum, there would have certainly been a silence clause in the settlement. Which you've just breached...
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 3rd Dec 17, 9:30 AM
    • 3,247 Posts
    • 3,548 Thanks
    Johno100
    Does that mean the floodgates are open for everyone else to claim
    Originally posted by photome
    No, because if something is settled out of court, regardless of what tier of the court it was due to have been heard in, then as the court doesn't get to pass a judgement there is no case law or precedent set.

    So much for the OP's altruistic motive - " I thought if I won my day in Court, all of these other people would be able to recover their costs." That clearly went out of the window when two grand in compo was waved in his face.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 3rd Dec 17, 11:04 AM
    • 2,462 Posts
    • 1,599 Thanks
    Car 54
    If they settled out of court for such a substantial sum, there would have certainly been a silence clause in the settlement. Which you've just breached...
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Are you sure? £2k may be a substantial sum to the OP, but it's peanuts to his opponents.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 3rd Dec 17, 11:34 AM
    • 15,768 Posts
    • 14,061 Thanks
    AdrianC
    In the context of the type of case, the actual losses the OP incurred, and their actual liability, it's a massive payout...
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 3rd Dec 17, 2:13 PM
    • 13,198 Posts
    • 8,371 Thanks
    arcon5
    Not really when you consider op paid £800 amendment fee amongst other court fees.
    • photome
    • By photome 3rd Dec 17, 3:36 PM
    • 12,840 Posts
    • 8,312 Thanks
    photome
    No, because if something is settled out of court, regardless of what tier of the court it was due to have been heard in, then as the court doesn't get to pass a judgement there is no case law or precedent set.

    So much for the OP's altruistic motive - " I thought if I won my day in Court, all of these other people would be able to recover their costs." That clearly went out of the window when two grand in compo was waved in his face.
    Originally posted by Johno100

    if everyone else the OP was concerned about went through the same process wouldnt they settle out of court for everyone or let it go the distance
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