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    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 23rd Jun 17, 6:19 PM
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    GlasweJen
    PIP ending letter
    • #1
    • 23rd Jun 17, 6:19 PM
    PIP ending letter 23rd Jun 17 at 6:19 PM
    I'm currently on PIP, standard daily living and enhanced mobility.

    My award ends on 22nd September this year and I've just got a letter saying that the award is coming to and end and "you'll need to make a new claim if you still need help with your daily living or mobility needs".

    Does anyone know why I got this instead of a renewal form? I have several illnesses some life threatening and all progressive. I'm 30 and will be lucky if I live to 50 (and that's assuming I get a heart when I need a new one, currently pushing my 2nd heart, 1st transplant to its limits.

    I had an indefinite DLA care award and a 3 year mobility award before transferring to PIP, awarded at tribunal after a nightmare of a transfer where the DWP "forgot" to look at my DLA file when transferring me over then sent it to my nosey neighbour when I asked for a copy to send to tribunal.
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Page 2
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 27th Jun 17, 9:08 PM
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    GlasweJen
    silly glaswejen!!


    don't you know that the DWP looked up Wikipedia and as they couldn't spell too good (zoolander voiceover).....they only put in para, not the plegia, and as a result the DM thinks once your pip time is up your gonna be a fully functioning superfit soldier so get your !!! back to barracks.


    in all seriousness tho, I am amazed a wheelchair user with a knackered heart transplant had to go to tribunal. disgusting.


    T
    Originally posted by tyler2027
    At the time of my tribunal my immune system was rock bottom, I had 2 weeks battery left on my pacemaker and no surgeon in the land was willing to replace it. Maybe they thought a new pacemaker would solve all the problems?
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    • tyler2027
    • By tyler2027 28th Jun 17, 8:05 AM
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    tyler2027
    At the time of my tribunal my immune system was rock bottom, I had 2 weeks battery left on my pacemaker and no surgeon in the land was willing to replace it. Maybe they thought a new pacemaker would solve all the problems?
    Originally posted by GlasweJen


    Hi,
    I think possibly a couple of things are at play here. I don't know your award levels but it may come down to:-


    The DWP could think some intervention would improve your health. A short award and reassessment would be needed on the basis that improvement was likely, point scores would drop, and an award be lowered from enhanced to standard, or from standard to not qualifying. However, just because someone is expected to improve doesn't mean they have, hence the DWP have to do the 14 week invite to reclaim rather than just letting the award run out.


    The other thing is that the tribunal awarded you the points. The DWP had to give an award. The only power over the award was for the DWP to control its length and reassess or review status. One could think the DWP could be petulant and give the minimum. Maybe they would not be so petulant on reassessment, especially if you have evidence to support that either no treatment or intervention is available for you, or you have had it and it didn't work.


    Regards,
    T
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 5th Oct 17, 10:36 AM
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    GlasweJen
    So to update, I received the form and sent it back with 2 cardiologist letters (1 transplant cardio, 1 arrhythmia cardio), 1 neurology letter (3 page extravaganza going into great detail about every PIP descriptor and how I meet it, the man is a saint), 1 ophthalmology letter, a physio report, an OT report and a report from my works occy health department.

    I got the text confirming that they had my form on time (I didn't ask for an extension either). Then I got radio silence. I called them after 4 weeks and asked what was going on, was told they'd call back. Usual nonsense where no one calls you so I phoned my MP who called and found out my form had been overlooked and I was supposed to be listed for a medical but wasn't - brilliant.

    So we got me a medical date for 18th September, MP fuming as my award was inevitably going to end before the new decision would be made, told me to make a complaint. So I called and complained that my form had been missed leading to my award being stopped, massive impact on me, lost blue badge etc.

    So then I attended the medical, literally sat in a room and got asked the questions on the form! What was the point in that? That's 2 hours of my life that I won't get back.

    Then the DWP phoned me on Tuesday, apparently my complaint had also been overlooked and this was them just getting around to looking at it. Told the man that this was despicable and I was in no state to discuss this issue and to write to me (I have a chest infection currently trying to kill me).

    And that's where we are, not had the letter from the complaints people, my MP has been told that it will be at least 6 weeks for a decision to be made and I'm apparently meant to conjure up money for carers, stay at home because I can't use disabled spaces because I don't have a blue badge and there are no assessment appointments at the council until after Christmas.
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    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 5th Oct 17, 11:04 AM
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    poppy12345
    So to update, I received the form and sent it back with 2 cardiologist letters (1 transplant cardio, 1 arrhythmia cardio), 1 neurology letter (3 page extravaganza going into great detail about every PIP descriptor and how I meet it, the man is a saint), 1 ophthalmology letter, a physio report, an OT report and a report from my works occy health department.

    I got the text confirming that they had my form on time (I didn't ask for an extension either). Then I got radio silence. I called them after 4 weeks and asked what was going on, was told they'd call back. Usual nonsense where no one calls you so I phoned my MP who called and found out my form had been overlooked and I was supposed to be listed for a medical but wasn't - brilliant.

    So we got me a medical date for 18th September, MP fuming as my award was inevitably going to end before the new decision would be made, told me to make a complaint. So I called and complained that my form had been missed leading to my award being stopped, massive impact on me, lost blue badge etc.

    So then I attended the medical, literally sat in a room and got asked the questions on the form! What was the point in that? That's 2 hours of my life that I won't get back.

    Then the DWP phoned me on Tuesday, apparently my complaint had also been overlooked and this was them just getting around to looking at it. Told the man that this was despicable and I was in no state to discuss this issue and to write to me (I have a chest infection currently trying to kill me).

    And that's where we are, not had the letter from the complaints people, my MP has been told that it will be at least 6 weeks for a decision to be made and I'm apparently meant to conjure up money for carers, stay at home because I can't use disabled spaces because I don't have a blue badge and there are no assessment appointments at the council until after Christmas.
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    Hopefully it won't be too long for a decision. Have you rang for a copy of the assessment report? This will give you some idea on what the decision will be, as the DM often goes with the report. Good luck.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 5th Oct 17, 11:29 AM
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    GlasweJen
    Hopefully it won't be too long for a decision. Have you rang for a copy of the assessment report? This will give you some idea on what the decision will be, as the DM often goes with the report. Good luck.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    I called and asked for a copy but they said they can't release it until the decision is made, I know this is nonsense but I'm too ill to fight it at the moment.
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    • Diary
    • By Diary 5th Oct 17, 10:07 PM
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    Diary
    I called and asked for a copy but they said they can't release it until the decision is made, I know this is nonsense but I'm too ill to fight it at the moment.
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    I will never understand why the DWP tell obvious (and not so obvious) lies. There is no excuse for the indiscriminate lying. None of us were born yesterday - do they still think they can pull the wool over our eyes.

    While not relevant to you Jen, I'm still trying to get the nurse who did my first PIP assessment struck off. I did manage to get one DWP employee sacked for gross misconduct for lying to me and a modest amount of compensation for his lies.
    I have the strength and the capability to go after them - not unsurprisingly at my second PIP assessment they decided not to mess me around.

    Really feel for you.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 6th Oct 17, 2:46 PM
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    GlasweJen
    I will never understand why the DWP tell obvious (and not so obvious) lies. There is no excuse for the indiscriminate lying. None of us were born yesterday - do they still think they can pull the wool over our eyes.

    While not relevant to you Jen, I'm still trying to get the nurse who did my first PIP assessment struck off. I did manage to get one DWP employee sacked for gross misconduct for lying to me and a modest amount of compensation for his lies.
    I have the strength and the capability to go after them - not unsurprisingly at my second PIP assessment they decided not to mess me around.

    Really feel for you.
    Originally posted by Diary
    The NMC decided that the "nurse" who did my assessment last year had no case to answer. All I can say is thank fcuk he doesn't work in a hospital, the mistakes he made were horrific
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    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 6th Oct 17, 9:15 PM
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    GlasweJen
    The mystery deepens. Got a letter from the complaints handler who said that the DWP aim to make a decision within 16 weeks of application being received and that I had a decision on 2nd October which makes it 14 weeks and therefore I have no complaint.

    If that's the case why wasn't I told this on the phone? Why was I told I couldn't have a copy of the assessment report even though I apparently spoke to this man after the decision was made and was told I couldn't get the report until the DM had made their decision? And where is my award notice?

    Does anyone know how long it takes for an award notice to be issued after a decision is made? I usually get them in large print, does that affect the timescale?
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    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 6th Oct 17, 9:44 PM
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    poppy12345
    The mystery deepens. Got a letter from the complaints handler who said that the DWP aim to make a decision within 16 weeks of application being received and that I had a decision on 2nd October which makes it 14 weeks and therefore I have no complaint.

    If that's the case why wasn't I told this on the phone? Why was I told I couldn't have a copy of the assessment report even though I apparently spoke to this man after the decision was made and was told I couldn't get the report until the DM had made their decision? And where is my award notice?

    Does anyone know how long it takes for an award notice to be issued after a decision is made? I usually get them in large print, does that affect the timescale?
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    Usually it takes about 1 week for letters to arrive, sometimes early for normal print. Not sure about large print. As it's only been 4 days since a decisions been made (so you were told) it's a little too early for the letter. You could always ring DWP and ask if a decisions been made, if it has then they'll tell you. Good luck.
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 7th Oct 17, 3:05 PM
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    nannytone
    all i can say is that i don't get letters at all. i phone and they tell me a letter is on its way .... but it never arrives.

    I'm wrong relly by not making a fuss but as long as my benefit is paid at the correct amount at the correct time, i really don't make a fuss
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 7th Oct 17, 4:58 PM
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    GlasweJen
    So, in a spectacular display of semi-competence the DWP awarded me 12 points for moving around and 6 for daily living!

    I scored 0 points for administering medication even though I explained that I use a dossett box and alarms and reminders from people and that I can't assemble a particular drug on my own because the pen mechanism is too difficult - I thought the dossett box would have scored?

    I also scored 0 for showering and bathing, again lots of explanation about how I can't have a bath because I risk blacking out and drowning and I'm supervised in the shower for the same reason.

    0 points for getting dressed even though I use an aid to put on prescription tights because well 1 I can't feel my legs and 2 they're really bloody difficult to put on.

    What's really frustrating is I already ascertained that this was the case 15 months ago at tribunal. Why are we even doing this again? It's a total waste of time and energy.

    Oh well, copy of the assessors report and go on from there. So angry I'm glad the DWP phone line isn't open today
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    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 7th Oct 17, 5:12 PM
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    GlasweJen
    Oh and my award is for 3 years, when exactly do they expect me to regrow the dead nerves to my legs?
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    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 7th Oct 17, 5:35 PM
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    Alice Holt
    Very frustrating.
    The necessary use of a dossette box should be 1 point.
    Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points
    Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress. 2 points

    Any additional errors that would get to enhanced DL?
    What did the tribunal award you?

    Would it be possible to get a GP's letter stating that your condition has not improved since the DWP's decision date relating to the tribunal?
    You could then send this with a copy of the TS decision letter.
    Along with a written statement from the carer / family member who supervises / provides care; plus any additional medical evidence.
    The PIP assessment guide may be worth quoting - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf

    (But, I'm sure you know all this, GlasweJen).

    I'd be inclined to give the MR as much clout as possible (even if it takes a couple of weeks to assemble the evidence), in the hope that yours is one of the 20% where the DWP do take a more sensible look at it. If only to (hopefully) avoid the longer wait for a TS hearing.

    Would it be worth writing to your MP - along the lines of it being a complete waste of public money for you to have to take this decision to tribunal again when you had a favourable decision 15 months ago and your condition has not improved.....etc.....etc.... And enclosing the MR asking if the MP can contact the DWP to ensure that the decision is thoroughly and competently reviewed...etc...

    Best wishes.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 7th Oct 17, 5:49 PM
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    GlasweJen
    Very frustrating.
    The necessary use of a dossette box should be 1 point.
    Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points
    Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress. 2 points
    Any additional errors that would get to enhanced DL?

    The DM wrote that I don't need help eating because I use normal cutlery but hasn't mentioned that I use unbreakavle plates and lidded cups.

    They've also missed the fact that I need things in larger print and uncrowded text because I have constant double vision. Apparently my VA was normal with one eye closed, well yes it would be but I can't walk about with a patch over my eye, one I would lose a good chunk of my visual field and two I risk adult onset amblyopia (had an amblyopic eye as a child) and if I then have an accident that damages the good eye I get to be blind on top of all of this!


    What did the tribunal award you?
    enhanced mobility with standard care but my eyes were better controlled and I wasn't on oxygen or needing as much medication support at that point.

    Would it be possible to get a GP's letter stating that your condition has not improved since the DWP's decision date relating to the tribunal?

    My GP doesn't write letters for anyone, they only do a report if the DWP ask for it.
    You could then send this with a copy of the TS decision letter.
    Along with a written statement from the carer / family member who supervises / provides care; plus any additional medical evidence.
    The PIP assessment guide may be worth quoting - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf
    I sent a letter from my cardiologist that actually contained the line "...and is so brittle that it affects her ability to carry out day to day tasks including [cut] and bathing which required constant supervision, the availability of an emergency hoist and help to ensure her lower half is dry".
    (But, I'm sure you know all this, GlasweJen).

    I'd be inclined to give the MR as much clout as possible (even if it takes a couple of weeks to assemble the evidence), in the hope that yours is one of the 20% where the DWP do take a more sensible look at it. If only to (hopefully) avoid the longer wait for a TS hearing.

    Would it be worth writing to your MP - along the lines of it being a complete waste of public money for you to have to take this decision to tribunal again when you had a favourable decision 15 months ago and your condition has not improved.....etc.....etc.... And enclosing the MR asking if the MP can contact the DWP to ensure that the decision is thoroughly and competently reviewed...etc... My MP is already on side, I'm going to write to her aide on Monday and give him an update. Can't wait to read the assessment report. I'm seriously considering sending the assessment centre some leaflets about brain injuries.

    Best wishes.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    Thanks Alice
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    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 7th Oct 17, 9:50 PM
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    GlasweJen
    Reading the DMs rationale for not awarding points they've stated "you can read with one eye closed, you use blue acetate overlays to read information".

    The blue acetate overlays are a prescription item, shouldn't they count as an aid?
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    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 8th Oct 17, 9:41 AM
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    Alice Holt
    The blue acetate overlays are a prescription item, shouldn't they count as an aid?
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    Yes they should.

    From the PIP assessment guide:
    "When considering whether a claimant requires an aid or appliance, HPs should distinguish between:
    • an aid or appliance that a claimant must use or could reasonably be expected to use, in order to carry out the activity safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner; and
    • an aid or appliance that a claimant may be using or wish to use because it makes it easier to carry out the activity safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner.
    Descriptor advice in favour of an aid or appliance should only be given in the former case."

    At my CAB, a LTT ruled that one client we were helping with an appeal who needed an overlay to overcome his dyslexia should be awarded points for the reading activity. The use of the overlay was recommended by a tutor at his local college (where he was doing a course) and we had evidence documenting this, but it was not prescribed by the GP.
    The TS decision was not challenged by the DWP.
    (I think this client also needed some sort of PC screen / adaption as well - do you need this in addition?) .
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 8th Oct 17, 1:02 PM
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    GlasweJen
    Yes they should.

    From the PIP assessment guide:
    "When considering whether a claimant requires an aid or appliance, HPs should distinguish between:
    • an aid or appliance that a claimant must use or could reasonably be expected to use, in order to carry out the activity safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner; and
    • an aid or appliance that a claimant may be using or wish to use because it makes it easier to carry out the activity safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner.
    Descriptor advice in favour of an aid or appliance should only be given in the former case."

    At my CAB, a LTT ruled that one client we were helping with an appeal who needed an overlay to overcome his dyslexia should be awarded points for the reading activity. The use of the overlay was recommended by a tutor at his local college (where he was doing a course) and we had evidence documenting this, but it was not prescribed by the GP.
    The TS decision was not challenged by the DWP.
    (I think this client also needed some sort of PC screen / adaption as well - do you need this in addition?) .
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    I have a programme that changes the colours on the screen but I prefer to use the screen reader. I mentioned the acetates but not the computer programme on my application but the nurse did ask me about it in detail and I told her the name of the programme and the name of the screen reading software.
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    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 10th Oct 17, 5:40 AM
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    GlasweJen
    I'm looking for a framework on which to base my mandatory reconsideration.

    I have been awarded 4 points for "requiring supervision to prepare a meal", now I don't see how supervision can help if I black out except to remove me from harms way and phone an ambulance if I spill a pot of boiling water down myself and I feel that I should be considered as unable to prepare a meal at all (which is more like the reality, I don't cook at all).

    But even if 1e is correct, by acknowledging that I require supervision to cook and to carry out a journey (DM wrote this but didn't award points which is a moot point anyway as I get enhanced on the moving grounds) shouldn't I then be considered to require supervision constantly and therefore score under all of the "supervision" tasks?

    What's put this in my mind is the tribunal ruling below. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58d3ad36e5274a16e3000090/CPIP_1599_2016-01.pdf

    I definitely need supervision in the shower (awarded 4 points by previous tribunal) and occasionally need help toileting as going to the toilet can induce a blackout for me (once a month or so).

    I was always awarded DLA on the grounds that I needed constantly supervised, a fact that not many people would dispute so why do the DWP now say that I only need supervised to cook and get around but not to bathe, toilet, manage medication and therapy etc?
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