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  • FIRST POST
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 21st Jun 17, 7:23 PM
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    b348xyx
    DPD Delivery Issue
    • #1
    • 21st Jun 17, 7:23 PM
    DPD Delivery Issue 21st Jun 17 at 7:23 PM
    Hi,

    Looking for some advice please to where i stand and my rights.

    ordered an expensive electric item from Currys via next day DPD service.

    I was out all day, but have the DPD app setup to leave item safe place or at next door if i am out which normally is fine and no issues.

    i got email saying delivered the item and signed for by my name. i thought ok fine must just signed for the item and put in box.

    got home no item to be seen anywhere, checked with next door and builder doing work behind me but nothing.

    reported to currys, they then contacted DPD and give them 3-5 days to investigate.

    while at work have DPD driver next day turn up while wife was at home and ask some questions about it, he advised my wife he gave to someone by my surname cleaning my driveway.

    my wife told him we were both out all day so it was not us, she give him a photo of me to show its not me who he gave parcel too.. he looked confused apparently and said no that not him ok.. he then got bit nasty with my wife saying well must be someone you know so on.. she asked him to leave.

    3-5days after making complaint to DPD directly about the delivery drivers way he spoke to my wife.

    i get phone call from currys saying DPD investigated and they wont be agreeing parcel is lost as DPD driver said he delivery it correctly and it must of been me outside the house. and the driver said it was me who he delivered it too.. even though i was not even there..

    and that it was signed for by my surname so has to have been me.

    outcome currys said they wont be refunding me or replacing the item and to contact police if i dont like the outcome.. and its not there issue no more.


    what do i do now? i currently have no parcel and no refund or replacement being sent and out of pocket large amount money.

    currys refuse to do anything now and manager on phone said same.. DPD refusing to help as they investigated and said the above.

    help ? what are my rights ?
Page 3
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 26th Jun 17, 10:38 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    If I were in the op's position I would also be asking to see a copy of the signature in order to deny it was mine. Without such a denial I would not have thought a claim would get far.

    I would also expect the delivery company, as part of their investigation, to compare the handwriting from that signature with any other signatures they have from previous deliveries at that address and also a sample of the delivery driver's writing. (Unless of course they have conclusive proof of what happened from some other source.)
    Originally posted by naedanger
    But if you wanted to con a parcel, it's not difficult to squiggle something down so that you could deny it later.

    Not that i'm implying this is what the OP has done.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 26th Jun 17, 11:23 PM
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    naedanger
    But if you wanted to con a parcel, it's not difficult to squiggle something down so that you could deny it later.

    Not that i'm implying this is what the OP has done.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Just because a squiggle could have been written by the op is not evidence that it was written by them (or anyone connected with them).
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 26th Jun 17, 11:34 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    Just because a squiggle could have been written by the op is not evidence that it was written by them (or anyone connected with them).
    Originally posted by naedanger
    Exactly. An unidentifiable squiggle could be made by the op to cover his tracks or by someone else. So the case of a signature is pretty pointless,unless it is checked against official ID.

    Again, not implying any wrong doing by the OP, just using as an example.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 26th Jun 17, 11:43 PM
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    naedanger
    Exactly. An unidentifiable squiggle could be made by the op to cover his tracks or by someone else. So the case of a signature is pretty pointless,unless it is checked against official ID.

    Again, not implying any wrong doing by the OP, just using as an example.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    My point is that an accurate signature is good evidence.

    The op therefore needs to see the "signature" the delivery company has and then dispute that it is theirs.

    (I also suspect that the delivery company will check the signature against any previous deliveries to the same address. In cases of disputed delivery if the disputed signature has strong similarities to previous signatures then the delivery company may have evidence to support their case. If not and they have no other evidence then they should pay out.)
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 27th Jun 17, 8:26 AM
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    DoaM
    But writing a signature on the handheld device can often result in signatures that look nothing like your normal signature, no matter how hard you try. Quite often you have to use your finger (nail) to do it as there isn't a pen available that'll work with the device.
    Diary of a madman
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    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 27th Jun 17, 9:08 AM
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    naedanger
    But writing a signature on the handheld device can often result in signatures that look nothing like your normal signature, no matter how hard you try. Quite often you have to use your finger (nail) to do it as there isn't a pen available that'll work with the device.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    My point is a "signature" is not necessarily proof of delivery if it is denied by the supposed recipient. The onus would then be on the delivery company to show why it is not just a squiggle anyone could have done. But the supposed recipient should go to the bother of confirming the signature was not written by them, or as far as they are aware, anyone at their address.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 6:27 PM
    • 15 Posts
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    b348xyx
    update. After speaking both curry's and dpd exec teams.

    DPD said they believe there driver acted with reasonable care and GPS says driver was in correct location at time, of course i asked how does giving parcel to someone outside an address mean they acted in reasonable care and would not answer me directly but said as driver give parcel which driver said was on my driveway this is reasonable for driver to think this was correct person. i also asked if driver make mistake would it affect his job they said it could.. so whatever this driver has done he most likely is doing everything he can to protect his job and DPD basically said they believe it has been delivered correctly and within there terms and only have the drivers word of that day and have no reason to believe he is lieing. i made point if he says he gave to someone on my drive and i say this is not me how can they possible refuse a claim.. they wont answer this directly and still refused to give me a copy signature. which i have been refused many times.

    Seems there covering there mistakes up and dont know how they can think they the driver acted reasonably

    currys said they will go with what DPD said and they will refuse refund or replacement and they will no longer be looking into this issue.

    I have since contacted my credit card provider and explained all the issues and sent an email with all the details day by day of what has happened and the outcomes from DPD and Currys.

    They advised there first step is a chargeback under grounds item is not received and will give currys 45days to reply and if they reply they have confirmed they will need more then just a signature to proof it was delivered correctly. they advised signature is not enough proof it was done correctly and based on what i have advised in my email they would need to provide evidence to confirm with 100% without reasonable doult they got the parcel to me directly. which they have already adminted is not the case.

    So they have 45days and once i hear anything from my credit card company i will update hear..

    I have advised curry's my view on the matter and there breaching contract they did not seem to care to much and just brushed this issue off. of course hopfully the credit card company sorts it.. if not they can go next step section 75 but dont think should get that far.. and then would be court.. of course i am going to be following this through the whole way as i am not accepting a massive lost.

    so for anyone reading i would think twice on thinking if parcel goes missing that you will be helped. DPD are a total joke and Currys will stick with DPD and not look at anything else even there EXEC Teams.

    I am actually shocked by all this and wont be ordering anything expensive online again.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 5th Jul 17, 7:02 PM
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    naedanger
    They advised there first step is a chargeback under grounds item is not received and will give currys 45days to reply and if they reply they have confirmed they will need more then just a signature to proof it was delivered correctly. they advised signature is not enough proof it was done correctly and based on what i have advised in my email they would need to provide evidence to confirm with 100% without reasonable doult they got the parcel to me directly. which they have already adminted is not the case.

    ...

    if not they can go next step section 75 but dont think should get that far.. and then would be court.. of course i am going to be following this through the whole way as i am not accepting a massive lost.
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    You are not obliged to go the chargeback route. You are entitled to make a section 75 claim now.

    Personally if I was in your position I tell the credit card company I did not wish to make a chargeback claim but was instead making a section 75 claim now against them.

    I would also state that if it they did not resolve the matter promptly by either providing a full refund or proof that the item was delivered correctly then I would pursue a formal complaint against them for taking too long to resolve this matter.

    (I would also make sure to confirm all points in writing, e.g. by email, to ensure I had evidence of what was said.)
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
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    b348xyx
    You are not obliged to go the chargeback route. You are entitled to make a section 75 claim now.

    Personally if I was in your position I tell the credit card company I did not wish to make a chargeback claim but was instead making a section 75 claim now against them.

    I would also state that if it they did not resolve the matter promptly by either providing a full refund or proof that the item was delivered correctly then I would pursue a formal complaint against them for taking too long to resolve this matter.

    (I would also make sure to confirm all points in writing, e.g. by email, to ensure I had evidence of what was said.)
    Originally posted by naedanger
    From Credit cards advice it seemed a charge back would be the best first step and worse case this failed i could then go section 75 route. would you mind telling me why going straight to section 75 and skipping chargeback route would be a better option ? (your advice is appreciated)

    Also as for in writing currys have put it in writing as i requested this and have this, DPD are sending me a letter in post with there reasons should be with me by end this week they advised. but wont hold my breath. (i also made sure it will be posted by royal mail !!)

    i also have many emails back and forth and my timeline of events day by day with each call so i can look back for reference.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 5th Jul 17, 7:24 PM
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    naedanger
    From Credit cards advice it seemed a charge back would be the best first step and worse case this failed i could then go section 75 route. would you mind telling me why going straight to section 75 and skipping chargeback route would be a better option ? (your advice is appreciated)
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    To speed things up. I wouldn't want to wait 45 days. Also it is easier to understand the credit card company's legal responsibility under a section 75 claim. They are responsible to the same extent as the retailer is - in other words they are fully responsible and cannot offload responsibility onto the retailer.


    Also as for in writing currys have put it in writing as i requested this and have this, DPD are sending me a letter in post with there reasons should be with me by end this week they advised. but wont hold my breath. (i also made sure it will be posted by royal mail !!)

    i also have many emails back and forth and my timeline of events day by day with each call so i can look back for reference.
    That is good. Ensure you can evidence everything. But if you go the section 75 route from now on you are expecting the credit card company to resolve matters, and if they don't your complaint is against the credit card company. You can ultimately complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about the credit card company should they fail to resolve the matter satisfactorily.

    If you have not read the following then it is worth a read:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

    Particularly section "If the retailer isn't playing ball it may be easier to go to your card provider"
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 7:32 PM
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    b348xyx
    I will make contact again with credit card company tomorrow and say from advice taken i want to change to a section 75 straight away and see what there next steps will be, i think its a different team that deals section 75 matter so might have to sent current information again or wait for letter from dpd and sent it all to them on section 75 grounds.

    was card company correct in saying if worse case chargeback fails i can still raise section 75 ? or is it one or the other out of interest ?

    is there any section 75 templates you know off, sorry for lots questions.
    Last edited by b348xyx; 05-07-2017 at 7:44 PM.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 5th Jul 17, 7:44 PM
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    naedanger
    I will make contact again with credit card company tomorrow and say from advice taken i want to change to a section 75 straight away and see what there next steps will be, i think its a different team that deals section 75 matter so might have to sent current information again or wait for letter from dpd and sent it all to them on section 75 grounds.

    is there any section 75 templates you know off, sorry for lots questions.
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    No. I don't know of any template. Just restate your case as clearly and concisely as you can.

    (Try to put yourself in the position of the person coming fresh to your case. They would probably welcome a summary of what happened and your argument and possibly a simple timeline of events. By all means include all previous correspondence in date order but don't expect the case reviewer to have to read everything to understand your complaint. All that said even if you don't express yourself well the reviewer should still judge the case on its merits not its presentation.)

    was card company correct in saying if worse case chargeback fails i can still raise section 75 ? or is it one or the other out of interest ?
    Yes I think they were correct. You could still do chargeback followed by section 75. I just don't see any advantage. In other words I cannot see a scenario, at least in theory, where you could lose a section 75 claim but win on a chargeback.

    However if there are separate teams then in practice you may have a very slight extra chance of success i.e. if the chargeback team are more inclined to believe customers than the section 75 team. (However I don't think that likely. And you would still have FOS if the section 75 team find against you.)
    Last edited by naedanger; 05-07-2017 at 7:49 PM.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 7:46 PM
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    b348xyx
    No. I don't know of any template. Just restate your case as clearly and concisely as you can.

    (Try to put yourself in the position of the person coming fresh to your case. They would probably welcome a summary of what happened and your argument and possibly a simple timeline of events. By all means include all previous correspondence in date order but don't expect the case reviewer to have to read everything to understand your complaint. All that said even if you don't express yourself well the reviewer should still judge the case on its merits not its presentation.)
    Originally posted by naedanger

    much appreciated for your advice, i will be sure to keep this thread updated.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Jul 17, 7:54 PM
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    wealdroam
    was card company correct in saying if worse case chargeback fails i can still raise section 75 ? or is it one or the other out of interest ?
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    I think the card company are correct in saying that, and are being quite reasonable in offering a S75 claim if the chargeback fails.
    Remember, if either the chargeback or the S75 claim fail you can always pass the issue to the Financial Ombudsman Service for review, before even needing to contemplate court action.


    is there any section 75 templates you know off, sorry for lots questions.
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    Here's a Section 75 template letter.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 5th Jul 17, 9:59 PM
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    unholyangel
    The reason the bank is pushing chargeback instead of section 75 is because a chargeback is against the merchants bank, a section 75 claim is against your bank. So chargeback = no possibility of your bank having to pay out. Section 75 = possibility of them having to pay out even if they can't recoup the funds from the retailer.

    A chargeback can only be done for certain reasons - its something that visa/mastercard offer themselves as policy (so based on contractual law I suppose).

    While a section 75 claim, if you have a claim against the retailer then you have a like claim against the creditor as per section 75 of the consumer credit act (so backed in legislation). Section 75 is only available to individuals (not ltd companies for example), it needs to under a debtor > creditor > retailer agreement and the purchase price of any commercial unit must be at least £100 but not more than £30,000 iirc.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 6th Jul 17, 2:34 PM
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    b348xyx
    Spoke to credit card company, they said i am well within my rights to sent letter and request they look at it under section 75 (which i know already) but would recommend going the charge back route first as there is nothing stopping me making the section 75 claim if that fails. just from what they do if item never turned up they tend to do charge backs first but if you have issue with faulty item they would tend to go straight to section 75 claim.

    So i will prepare my letter ready to sent them regarding section 75, while i am waiting for final letter from DPD.

    Note credit card company have credited my account in full at the moment, of course i understand this can be reversed.
    • Fluffybunny80
    • By Fluffybunny80 15th Jul 17, 10:51 PM
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    Fluffybunny80
    Any updates on this OP? Just been reading and hoping for a positive outcome for you.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 15th Jul 17, 11:12 PM
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    b348xyx
    No update, letting credit card company go chargeback route first. Have my section 75 letter written just in case I need to go that route after.

    Currys have this time next month to reply. Any updates I get I will update here.

    Still very annoyed at whole experience though and won’t use dpd or Currys again.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 3rd Aug 17, 5:13 PM
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    b348xyx
    Update,

    Call From credit card company advising currys is disputing the chargeback (they submitted little information and just a copy of the delivery signature saying it was delivery without issue. the signature i have still have not been given from them but credit card company is going to forward the copy to me with some documents i need to fill in so i can have copy finally as currys and dpd refused to give me a copy of the signature they advised is similar to mine !!!) and was asked for more details, explained for around 20mins the outline of the issues and was told by the case manager dealing with this now that given the information from DPD regarding they acted within policy and believe delivered correctly this would not be correct, unless they can 100% prove it was given to me they don't have a good defense and even so the claim is against currys so whatever DPD say is not 100% relievent it is up to Currys to proof it and not just blame there Courier and not take responsibly.. seems there on the same page as me but time will tell but seemed its not the first time the case handler has dealt with currys point blank refusing to replace or refund items that go missing.

    So Credit Card company is sending me some documents to sign and fill out, and asked for copys all emails and letters from Currys and DPD. and my 5 page written log with date and times of the issue.

    they wont recharge my account at the moment and will now be in dispute between myself and currys.

    Case worker on the phone was very nice and helpful and hopefully after has all my information will make correct choice to agree my side and make curry's pay for there mistakes.

    anyway will update again when hear back again.
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