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  • FIRST POST
    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 20th Jun 17, 6:36 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    sunshine321
    PCN-Smart Parking Ltd -Letter never received
    • #1
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:36 PM
    PCN-Smart Parking Ltd -Letter never received 20th Jun 17 at 6:36 PM
    Parking Charge Notice- Debt Recovery Plus Ltd on behalf of Smart Parking Ltd



    Hi there,

    I am unsure as to how I approach a parking charge which I received in the just post yesterday- Location Riverside shopping centre Erith. Help and advice would be greatly appreciated many thanks in advance.

    Basically I received received a letter in the post quite unexpectedly yesterday 20/06/17 from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd-DRP (please let me know if you'd like me to attach on here) saying that they were writing to me because I had not paid their client 'Smart Parking Ltd) and the amount owing is £160 for a parking charge dated 07/05/17.

    I find this very odd as I have definitely not received a letter of communication from 'Smart Parking Ltd' at all in relation to said offence. Reason stated in this letter is: 'Insufficient paid Time'

    I went onto the 'Smart Parking Ltd' website and was able to view the pictures relating to the said contravention using the parking charge notice no specified in this letter from Debt Recovery plus Ltd. There they have 2 pictures of my car, the first being the front of my car presumably entering the car park photograph time of 12:46 and the second picture showing the back of my car presumably upon exiting the car park at 13:19. This would bring the total time spent at the car park 33mins. Parking in this car park is free up to the first 3 hours while they still ask users to display a ticket from the machine which is printed free of charge for display in car.

    I can only assume that the offence which I am being accused of is not obtaining a free ticket and displaying on my windscreen from the machine or if that was done that the numberplate was incorrectly entered into the machine although I cannot be sure for certain or even remember the incident in question to be honest. I have used the car park on numerous occasions always obtaining a free ticket from the machine to display on my windscreen and believe I would have done the same in this instance (if I was in fact driving that is). I do not have the free machine parking ticket that would back this up however unfortunately tending to dispose of my machine parking tickets after a few weeks. As I cannot specifically recall the incident in question there would be no way of even ascertaining that I was even the driver of the car at the time of said contravention. On the 'Smart Parking Ltd website they specify that issue date was 10/5/17 and contravention date was 7/5/17. But received nothing from them at all, the first I know about anything is the letter I received yesterday from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd charging me £160.

    Please help, how do I go about dealing with this? It's making me a little stressed and anxious. I honesty seriously doubt that Smart Parking Ltd even contacted me in the first place if they had as 3 days later as they claim on their website I would have better recollection of whether I was the driver or not and if so I did obtain a ticket or not and may even have still had the ticket as proof if I didn't fail to obtain one which I don't believe I did, considering I have used said car park many a time and not 'forgotten' to do this. Nevertheless not helped by the 6 week lapse of time I just cant be certain. I just feel that the actions of Smart Parking Ltd are hugely unethical considering the car park is free up to the first 3 hours anyway and their camera's have supported my car being in the car park for just over 30 mins. I would definitely need to ask them to provide evidence of proof of postage from Smart Parking Ltd. What this would also means is that the appeal window would have presumably lapsed now they have involved the DRP (their letter dated 15/6/17) now 6 weeks after the 7/05/17 contravention date.


    Many thanks in advance guys and sorry for the essay hope all makes sense?
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 17, 6:40 PM
    • 14,790 Posts
    • 18,604 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:40 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:40 PM
    I would do 3 things

    1) complain to the landholder and insist on a cancellation

    2) I would send not so SMART the blue text appeal in the NEWBIES sticky thread

    if posting it , I would get a free cert of posting from the P O Counter

    3) I would complain to the BPA by email and copy in david dunford of the dvla , complaining that smart have failed to notify the RK of this charge. so the first you have heard about it (as keeper) is this DRP letter

    and IGNORE drp, they are powerless

    ps:- make sure that the vehicle is registered to you at the correct name and address, and check this was the case on the date of the alleged "offence"
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Jun 17, 6:44 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,785 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:44 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:44 PM
    Basically I received received a letter in the post quite unexpectedly yesterday 20/06/17 from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd-DRP (please let me know if you'd like me to attach on here) saying that they were writing to me because I had not paid their client 'Smart Parking Ltd) and the amount owing is £160 for a parking charge dated 07/05/17.

    I find this very odd as I have definitely not received a letter of communication from 'Smart Parking Ltd' at all
    We don't find it odd. Smart Parking do this a lot, straight to DRPlus stage.

    Don't tell them who was driving, so please, please don't send that effort, it talks about you using the car park and it gives them far too much information. Do as Redx says, and read the NEWBIES thread, that's why it's at the top of the forum.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    • 14,790 Posts
    • 18,604 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    and in that case edit post #1 and remove any hint of who was driving

    the words "me , myself and I" are banned

    the correct words are

    THE DRIVER

    THE KEEPER

    tell the story as if I was the driver
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Jun 17, 7:26 PM
    • 39,748 Posts
    • 79,554 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 20th Jun 17, 7:26 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Jun 17, 7:26 PM
    We don't find it odd. Smart Parking do this a lot, straight to DRPlus stage.

    Don't tell them who was driving, so please, please don't send that effort, it talks about you using the car park and it gives them far too much information. Do as Redx says, and read the NEWBIES thread, that's why it's at the top of the forum.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I have started to compile a list of threads where no NTK has been received. It's slow going and so far I only have one other from Not so Smart, which is here.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72685246&posted=1#post72685246

    However, every time I see a thread where this has happened I will update my list, and suggest the poster adds it to their complaint to the DVLA and BPA which is what this OP should do here.

    If any of the regulars comes across a thread where no NTK has been received, please PM me with a link to the thread so I can add it to my list. Also PM me if you want a coy of the list. Alas it is only has three entries from two companies at the moment, (Not so Smart and Horizon,) but hopefully it will become a useful complaint tool at some point.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 20-06-2017 at 7:33 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 24th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sunshine321
    • #6
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    Hi there thanks for your response, I today received another letter from DRP (so less than one week after the first DRP letter) saying that my time to appeal had expired. This presumably would have been within the 6 week period since the contravention date and DRP getting in touch where I have no communication from Smart Parking themselves like they are implying.

    Is this the appeal that you advised that I send to Smart Parking? It was in the blue text of the Newbie thread? If so would it be okay the definitely exclude the text in red about the clarity of sign and written given that the car park has been used in the past without any issues surrounding the free ticket being obtained from the machine. Shall I also ask for proof of postage too of the PCN that was apparently sent to me 3 days after the contravention?

    Secondly would you still advise that I write to Smart Parking given that they have the appeal window will have lapse (in the 6 period that they did not contact me). If they just come back to me saying that I have missed me time to appeal and that I need to just deal directly with DRP what would you advise is the next course of action to take?

    Feel extremely even more anxious about this whole situation now and that Im being backed into a corner by DRP.

    Many thanks in advance


    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 24th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sunshine321
    • #7
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
    Hi Red X ,

    Many thanks,

    "ps:- make sure that the vehicle is registered to you at the correct name and address, and check this was the case on the date of the alleged "offence""

    Yes this is so
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Jun 17, 3:30 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,785 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:30 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:30 PM
    Feel extremely even more anxious about this whole situation now and that Im being backed into a corner by DRP.
    hahaha, sorry...please calm down.

    DRPlus/Zenith letters mean nothing.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72743401#post72743401

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72743317#post72743317

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5035663

    Do as Redx told you already, in THIS ORDER:

    I would do 3 things

    1) complain to the landholder and insist on a cancellation

    2) I would send not so SMART the blue text appeal in the NEWBIES sticky thread

    if posting it , I would get a free cert of posting from the P O Counter

    3) I would complain to the BPA by email and copy in david dunford of the dvla , complaining that smart have failed to notify the RK of this charge. so the first you have heard about it (as keeper) is this DRP letter

    and IGNORE drp, they are powerless

    If they just come back to me saying that I have missed me time to appeal and that I need to just deal directly with DRP what would you advise is the next course of action to take?
    Nothing!

    Riverside Shopping Centre will have cancelled it when you've complained (YOUR FIRST STEP).
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 24th Jun 17, 3:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sunshine321
    • #9
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:51 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Jun 17, 3:51 PM
    Ok thank you I will prepare a letter to go in Monday's post
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Jun 17, 5:06 PM
    • 39,748 Posts
    • 79,554 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Ok thank you I will prepare a letter to go in Monday's post
    Originally posted by sunshine321
    As advised, send it first class from a Post Office counter and get a free proof of posting. Do not use any other method of posting when sending stuff to a parking scammer.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Jun 17, 7:27 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,785 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Don't use the post for a PPC.

    I think the OP means his complaint to the shopping centre - so much easier to do by email though.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 13th Jul 17, 7:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sunshine321
    Hi guys, do you think that this letter is okay to send out?

    Many thanks in advance



    To whom it may concern,

    Re PCN number:!XXX

    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Evidence of your initial attempt to contact the registered keeper at the apparent parking charge date. As the registered keeper I confirm that I have not received any correspondence in respect of alleged parking charge

    2. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?

    3. Name and contact details of the landowner

    4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.!

    5. Please provide!all!photographs taken of this vehicle, alleged driver as well as evidence beyond doubt of said contravention


    Do not send further debt collector letters or other means of communication through debt collectors and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I did get in touch with your third party the day after receiving their initial letter making it clear that I have never been contacted by yourselves whatsoever as the registered keeper of the vehicle in relation to purported parking charge henceforth will not respond further to debt collectors and involvement of a third party demonstrates a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.!

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court through your third party for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence which has been evidenced beyond doubt thus far, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

    I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jul 17, 8:40 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,785 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I thought Riverside shopping park were being asked to cancel it?

    It's too late to appeal, you won't get it cancelled except by the landowner.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 13th Jul 17, 10:09 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sunshine321
    Hi there,

    Yes, not actually sure who the landowners are have asked that in the above draft letter though

    Not sure what else I can do at the stage?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jul 17, 10:18 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,785 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The parking firm are not going to tell you. Google the place.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 14th Jul 17, 7:31 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    sunshine321
    Have done no word on who the landowners are
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 14th Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    • 3,654 Posts
    • 5,178 Thanks
    Half_way
    This the place? http://www.erith-riverside.co.uk
    big clue are bottom of the page.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jul 17, 12:45 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,785 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Have done no word on who the landowners are
    Originally posted by sunshine321
    Seriously? I have never seen a set of Google results re a named retail park, that doesn't give an email address or name of landowner/site agent. You were actually looking at the Google results and not just one webpage and expecting it to be shouted from the top of a page?

    Any newspaper article or corporate advert about shop units available, is going to tell you who runs it.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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