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  • FIRST POST
    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 20th Jun 17, 3:00 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    POPLA unsuccessful, what now?
    • #1
    • 20th Jun 17, 3:00 PM
    POPLA unsuccessful, what now? 20th Jun 17 at 3:00 PM
    So got my POPLA decision today and was unsuccessful also im still waiting for reply from Parking Eye on other PCN, appeal was made on 21.04 and still no answer from Parking Eye. What to do now? I did send them a letter but no answer.
    POPLA decision
    DecisionUnsuccessful
    Assessor NameEsther Sargeant
    Assessor summary of operator case
    The operator issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) because the motorist did not gain the appropriate permit or authorisation.

    Assessor summary of your case
    The appellant states every time they enter the car park, they have to enter the vehicle registration into the system inside the building in order to park free of charge. The appellant states the system was not working for two weeks, so they were unable to enter their vehicle registration. The appellant states one of their parking charges has been cancelled.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision
    The terms and conditions of the site state: “Permit Holders Only…Cambridge House & Sovereign House visitors must enter their full, correct vehicle registration into the terminal at Cambridge House or Sovereign House lobby to obtain a 4 hour parking permit…Failure to comply with the terms & conditions will result in a Parking Charge of: £100”. The operator issued the PCN to vehicle registration DA63 RGV because the motorist did not gain the appropriate permit or authorisation. The site operates Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras. The cameras captured the appellant entering the site at 17:02, exiting at 18:44 on 6 April 2017; the period of stay was one hour and 42 minutes. The appellant states every time they enter the car park, they have to enter the vehicle registration into the system inside the building in order to park free of charge. The appellant states the system was not working for two weeks, so they were unable to enter their vehicle registration. The appellant states one of their parking charges has been cancelled. Though I note one of the parking charges has been cancelled by the operator, I am unable to consider this when making my assessment. It is under the operator’s discretion whether to cancel a PCN. POPLA only assesses individual parking charges and does not compare parking events or PCNs. Section 19.3 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice states: “If the driver breaks the contract, for example by not paying the tariff fee or by staying longer than the time paid…they may be liable for parking charges”. Though I acknowledge that the system was not working, the appellant’s grounds show they were aware of this at the time and therefore, were aware they could not meet the parking requirements. However, the motorist still chose to park their vehicle at the site. I note the signage indicates that there are two systems available at the site; one in Cambridge House and one in Sovereign House. If the motorist was unable to access the other system to register their vehicle, it is reasonable to expect the motorist not to park at the site until the time that they were able to comply with the terms and conditions. The operator has provided a system printout to evidence the vehicle was not registered on the date of the event. As such, the vehicle was not authorised to park at the site. When deciding to park, it is the motorist’s responsibility to be aware of the terms and conditions of the car park and comply with these. On this occasion, the motorist failed to adhere to these by not gaining the appropriate permit or authorisation. As such, I am satisfied that the PCN has been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must refuse the appeal.

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Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jun 17, 4:04 PM
    • 51,536 Posts
    • 65,141 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would actually email that, start some email tennis with them.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 29th Jun 17, 6:16 PM
    • 3,841 Posts
    • 5,411 Thanks
    Half_way
    Told them that i went to visit my family 3 times in 2 week's period and through this 2 week's Parking Eye system hasn't been working and beacuse of that I've got 3 pcn from Parking Eye, made appeal to all 3, one was cancelled one unsuccessful and one appeal was made on 21.04 and 2 months later still no answer from them. Their answer was... We can't do anything about it...
    Originally posted by Emilsobolewski

    Quick question - although its not parking eyes usual stomping ground, is this a residential ticket picked up from a residential site?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 29th Jun 17, 6:25 PM
    • 10,203 Posts
    • 9,348 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    If they genuinely have a listing of who did enter their details on that day and your car was missing, then I have to ask "How did other vehicles manage to enter their details successfully". If they used the other terminal to the broken one and you didn't try there, then you are on very, very shaky ground."

    However, you would need some proof of the fact that one was working. So check with Reception.

    If both were out, then you need to challenge their contract with the landowner to see if they are obligated to provide working terminals or an alternative method of giving details
    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 29th Jun 17, 7:33 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    Yes it is residential car park. There are 2 blocks of flats with only one terminal inside one of the buildings. As a visitor we allow to stay there 4 hours free of charge. Any resident who lives in those flats are allowed to have 2 cars on that car park, first one its free and for the second is 30 pounds charge per year.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jun 17, 7:36 PM
    • 51,536 Posts
    • 65,141 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Right, so the residents have paid for a licence to park. Who do they pay?

    But your car was visiting?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 29th Jun 17, 7:45 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    They only paying for second car, payments going to Estate Agents. Just spoke to my sister. There is second terminal in other building, but to gain entry into that building i need to have code for intercom.....
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jun 17, 7:50 PM
    • 51,536 Posts
    • 65,141 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    ''Impossible for an authorised visitor to comply with the contract'' then, would be one argument.

    Read PACE v Lengyel, transcript from the other week, hosted by the Parking Prankster under his case law pages. It's similar in that respect and similar in that the permits were not offered by the parking firm. Lots of similarities, and a very nicely paced and explained decision by the Judge.

    It's only a county court decision, not actual case law really, but Judges do usually read such transcripts, and it helps steer them!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 29th Jun 17, 8:19 PM
    • 10,203 Posts
    • 9,348 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    They only paying for second car, payments going to Estate Agents. Just spoke to my sister. There is second terminal in other building, but to gain entry into that building i need to have code for intercom.....
    Originally posted by Emilsobolewski

    That is a vital point and you will need to make a point of demanding what % of motorists used that building during the 2 weeks you say the other terminal was not working.

    I agree with c-m that you have a very realistic appeal point now that we have established that you could not have used the 2nd terminal.
    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 30th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    My sister friend used this car park on 7.04.2017 received PCN and Parking Eye accept his explanation of faulty system, I've parked there on 06.04.2017 and appeal rejected, its so frustrating �� �� �� ��
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Jun 17, 6:32 PM
    • 51,536 Posts
    • 65,141 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep, that sums up parking firms, unfair, inconsistent, bullying and a total waste of space.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 1st Jul 17, 1:04 PM
    • 10,203 Posts
    • 9,348 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    My sister friend used this car park on 7.04.2017 received PCN and Parking Eye accept his explanation of faulty system, I've parked there on 06.04.2017 and appeal rejected, its so frustrating �� �� �� ��
    Originally posted by Emilsobolewski

    If you have in writing from your sister's case that they acknowledge faulty equipment, then that, too, should be incorporated into your appeal.
    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 2nd Jul 17, 5:43 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    Its bit to late for appeal, already lost with POPLA, any hope now with emailing them.....
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 2nd Jul 17, 8:40 AM
    • 33,260 Posts
    • 17,197 Thanks
    Quentin
    Certainly nothing to lose by doing so (assuming you are referring to the email complaining as discussed above)
    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 2nd Jul 17, 9:45 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    Yes that's correct also can Parking Eye take somone straight to court without issuing a PCN?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 2nd Jul 17, 9:49 AM
    • 10,203 Posts
    • 9,348 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Its bit to late for appeal, already lost with POPLA, any hope now with emailing them.....
    Originally posted by Emilsobolewski

    OK. For "appeal" read "court skeleton argument" but I would re-contact PE restating the facts about inability to use 2nd terminal, sister's win and their admission of faulty equipment (in fact enclose relevant correspondence) and that you will base your case around that should they try court.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 2nd Jul 17, 10:22 AM
    • 33,260 Posts
    • 17,197 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes that's correct also can Parking Eye take somone straight to court without issuing a PCN?
    Originally posted by Emilsobolewski
    It is confusing that you look to have 3 threads running????

    In your first thread you do say you got a "charge"??

    Whatever they can issue a claim to you. If so you can defend it!

    But why not get that email off to them?

    (Or have you still got your solicitor dealing with this as mentioned previously)
    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 9th Jul 17, 9:18 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    Hi again,
    Last week i decided to contact PE about broken system and not responding to one of the appeals. Every email I've tried they keep sending one answer,,we are not dealing with appeals over this email address,,what should i do next? They not responding for my appeal which was made on 21.04, send them 3 letters and still no contact from PE, I've tried 3 different telephone numbers but they all are payment lines.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    • 51,536 Posts
    • 65,141 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They don't deal with appeals by email, but if you are saying there is a PCN where you appealed on 21st April, and haven't had a POPLA code or any reply, you should email the BPA and complain, telling them you have followed up by email but are getting nowhere with PE:

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    Tell the BPA you will be complaining to Trading Standards about this lack of POPLA code but wanted to give the BPA a chance to sort the issue out first, give them seven days. Don't write too politely, they are really not worthy of courtesy these days, not too much in the way of 'please and thankyou'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Emilsobolewski
    • By Emilsobolewski 13th Jul 17, 8:47 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Emilsobolewski
    Wow..... I've spoke with Parking Eye through the phone and....success they cancelled all my PCN, happy days....Thanks all u people for your help
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