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  • FIRST POST
    • amfan
    • By amfan 19th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    • 55Posts
    • 35Thanks
    amfan
    Paid for a course that is not going to run - no refund due to shops change of hands
    • #1
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    Paid for a course that is not going to run - no refund due to shops change of hands 19th Jun 17 at 4:08 PM
    In February I paid for a bike maintenance course the following month with a local bike shop. The day of the course came around and the shop called me to cancel it. They offered me an alternative date later in the month but I had to decline as I was on holiday. I was then offered a date in April, which I accepted. The day of the course came around again and yet again they cancelled, this time by email. I asked for my money back, but was assured they would run more classes in May and June.

    I've just called the store to again request a refund only to be informed it's not their debt to repay as the shop changed hands on April 1st.

    Where do I stand in getting this money refunded to me? Do I have any rights here? The company may have changed hands but the new owners were the ones that were apparently running the course in April, and their supposed courses in May and June. How can they take on the running of the course yet not be liable to refund me now they have no intention of it taking place?
Page 1
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 19th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    • 9,481 Posts
    • 7,483 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    Has the shop definitely changed hands, eg was owned by John Smith now owned by Bert Bloggs? Is the trading name the same? Who did you pay your money to?
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 19th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,548 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    In February I paid for a bike maintenance course the following month with a local bike shop. The day of the course came around and the shop called me to cancel it. They offered me an alternative date later in the month but I had to decline as I was on holiday. I was then offered a date in April, which I accepted. The day of the course came around again and yet again they cancelled, this time by email. I asked for my money back, but was assured they would run more classes in May and June.

    I've just called the store to again request a refund only to be informed it's not their debt to repay as the shop changed hands on April 1st.

    Where do I stand in getting this money refunded to me? Do I have any rights here? The company may have changed hands but the new owners were the ones that were apparently running the course in April, and their supposed courses in May and June. How can they take on the running of the course yet not be liable to refund me now they have no intention of it taking place?
    Originally posted by amfan
    How did you pay? By card I hope. Credit or debit card?
    • amfan
    • By amfan 19th Jun 17, 4:15 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    amfan
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:15 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:15 PM
    Has the shop definitely changed hands, eg was owned by John Smith now owned by Bert Bloggs? Is the trading name the same? Who did you pay your money to?
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    The shop is still named the same, there were no big displays outside to suggest new ownership, I simply have their say so on the phone today to go on. I paid my money to the bike shop directly.
    • amfan
    • By amfan 19th Jun 17, 4:15 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    amfan
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:15 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:15 PM
    How did you pay? By card I hope. Credit or debit card?
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    I did pay by card, but it was debit card and not credit card, so it's my understanding I'm offered no protection on the purchase there?
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 19th Jun 17, 4:18 PM
    • 9,481 Posts
    • 7,483 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:18 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:18 PM
    How much was the course?
    • amfan
    • By amfan 19th Jun 17, 4:22 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    amfan
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:22 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:22 PM
    How much was the course?
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    It's not a great deal, £50. But that's £50 that I've paid for something I've not received, it just seems a little unfair that when the course was cancelled in March they offered up April dates probably knowing full well the company was to change hands, and the company are still maintaining they will eventually honour the classes although now they're saying it will be in the Autumn.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 19th Jun 17, 4:23 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,548 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:23 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:23 PM
    I did pay by card, but it was debit card and not credit card, so it's my understanding I'm offered no protection on the purchase there?
    Originally posted by amfan
    Have a read of MSE's Chargeback article.

    Then speak to your card issuer.
    Take care... you only have 180 days to get your claim in.

    Ooops... my mistake... it's only 120 days to make a claim.
    You may already be too late but there are exceptions if the service was not due to be provided later - as in your case. Still worth speaking to your bank.
    Last edited by wealdroam; 19-06-2017 at 4:32 PM. Reason: Link corrected.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 19th Jun 17, 4:28 PM
    • 2,180 Posts
    • 1,767 Thanks
    naedanger
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:28 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:28 PM
    I did pay by card, but it was debit card and not credit card, so it's my understanding I'm offered no protection on the purchase there?
    Originally posted by amfan
    I am not sure but I think you would be covered provided the company you bought the course from did actually go bust.

    See the following article, in particular "... the clock usually starts ticking when you first notice a problem though it will depend on the type of situation", and iro of a holiday, which has similarities to your situation "You book a flight or trip with a firm that then goes bust before you take it. The deadline starts from the date the flight was due to take off or the holiday to start."

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback

    I think I would ask the new shop for details of how they took over from the previous company e.g. did they buy the company (in which case they are liable) or only the trading name, in which case you need to find out what happened to the old company. If it went bust I think you can do a chargeback.
    • amfan
    • By amfan 19th Jun 17, 4:30 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    amfan
    Have a read of MSE's Chargeback article.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    Thanks for the info - although the link doesn't go to the correct place, but I did search for the article. I will call the bank and see what they say. Thanks again for the help.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 19th Jun 17, 4:32 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,548 Thanks
    wealdroam
    Thanks for the info - although the link doesn't go to the correct place, but I did search for the article. I will call the bank and see what they say. Thanks again for the help.
    Originally posted by amfan
    Oh dear... link now corrected.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Jun 17, 5:08 PM
    • 11,144 Posts
    • 8,394 Thanks
    unholyangel
    You can also search on companies house to see if the trader was possibly registered and if so, if they have been dissolved or merely changed their name.

    If you can't find an entry for the name of the shop, check what the name was one the debit to your card and search for that name.

    If you're unsure, you can post the names here and we could see what we can find out. If you'd rather not, thats fine - just some members (hollydays for example) can be pretty good at digging.
    Last edited by unholyangel; 19-06-2017 at 5:11 PM.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 19th Jun 17, 6:40 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 515 Thanks
    angryparcel
    You can also search on companies house to see if the trader was possibly registered
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    would only show it if was a limited company and most small traders are just sole traders
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 19th Jun 17, 7:54 PM
    • 11,144 Posts
    • 8,394 Thanks
    unholyangel
    would only show it if was a limited company and most small traders are just sole traders
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    I wouldn't say most traders are sole traders. But if they are a sole trader, then the trader is liable to the OP (even if he no longer trades).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 19th Jun 17, 11:22 PM
    • 2,660 Posts
    • 1,617 Thanks
    Ectophile
    It all depends on exactly what is meant by the shop changing owners.

    If the shop was owned by a person, operating under a trade name, and they have now sold the shop to another person or company, then the person who sold you the course is liable (and not the new owner).

    If the shop was owned by a company, and the company has been sold to someone else, then the company is still liable, whoever owns it.

    If the shop was owned by a company, which went bust, and then a new person or company has bought the assets and reopened the shop, then you're entirely dependent on goodwill. The liability was with the old company.

    If you have an invoice for the course, look on it (particularly for small print in the letterhead or at the bottom) to see if there's any details of a company. If it is/was a company, the company's name, address and registration number should be on every formal document they issue.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 20th Jun 17, 7:13 AM
    • 1,603 Posts
    • 2,053 Thanks
    unforeseen
    It all depends on exactly what is meant by the shop changing owners

    If the shop was owned by a company, and the company has been sold to someone else, then the company is still liable, whoever owns it.
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    Not quite correct.

    If the company was sold using a share sale agreement then the new company takes on all liabilities.

    But if it was sold using an asset sale agreement then the new company does not take on the liabilities and debts so the old company is liable
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 20th Jun 17, 7:48 AM
    • 11,144 Posts
    • 8,394 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Not quite correct.

    If the company was sold using a share sale agreement then the new company takes on all liabilities.

    But if it was sold using an asset sale agreement then the new company does not take on the liabilities and debts so the old company is liable
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    Except that when you purchase the assets, you're not purchasing the company. What ectophile said was correct - if they purchase the company, they inherit its liabilities.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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