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  • FIRST POST
    • beefster
    • By beefster 19th Jun 17, 1:26 PM
    • 720Posts
    • 69Thanks
    beefster
    1/2 share - forced sale
    • #1
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:26 PM
    1/2 share - forced sale 19th Jun 17 at 1:26 PM
    Difficult position...
    Our family small holding has ended up being placed in equal ownership between myself and my sister.
    I have owned 50% for 12 years - passed to me in inheritance.
    My sister has had a 50% share signed over to her by me mother 3 years ago.
    I currently live on site (4.5 years). My sister lived there for 4 years before this. Both with no rental agreement. The property is an agricultural site.


    Today I received an email from my sister who wants to sell the property to liquidate her asset. As it has been the family home for generations and I currently live here I don't want to sell. She does not want to entertain a tenancy / rental agreement. She wants to get three valuations and then offer the property up for sale by sealed bids. "Of course I can bid if I want too"....


    1. Can she force the sale of 100% of the property thus forcing me out of the property against my wishes?
    2. Can I insist I do not want to sell my 50% ownership?
    I would think buyers for her 50% of a small remote 3 bed chalet with barns / wood store on a 4 acre plot with no planning option to expand (been refused - green belt etc) would be limited. Thus the value would be less.


    3. Do I have any rights as I am living there at present. No tenancy or rental agreement is in place though. I have modernised the property spending approx. £15000 of my own money. Some before and some after she took 1/2 ownership. This will have increased value in my mind.


    Are there tax implications to my sister if the property signed over to her by our mother is sold? Or does this only become an issue should mum pass away before the 7 year cut off?


    Bit of a nightmare scenario. As you may detect we are not the closest of siblings any way.
    Before I make any comment I thought I should try and understand my rights and see if anyone has any experience of a similar issue. Its a loooong drive to the nearest solicitor but that will be the inevitable course to take should my sister move forward in this regard.



    Ta for reading.
    I save so I can spend.
Page 1
    • Pricivius
    • By Pricivius 19th Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 980 Thanks
    Pricivius
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    Do you and your sister own the property as joint tenants or tenants in common?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 19th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,765 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    Difficult position...
    Our family small holding has ended up being placed in equal ownership between myself and my sister.
    I have owned 50% for 12 years - passed to me in inheritance.
    My sister has had a 50% share signed over to her by me mother 3 years ago.
    I currently live on site (4.5 years). My sister lived there for 4 years before this. Both with no rental agreement. The property is an agricultural site.


    Today I received an email from my sister who wants to sell the property to liquidate her asset. As it has been the family home for generations and I currently live here I don't want to sell. She does not want to entertain a tenancy / rental agreement. She wants to get three valuations and then offer the property up for sale by sealed bids. "Of course I can bid if I want too"....


    1. Can she force the sale of 100% of the property thus forcing me out of the property against my wishes? - Yes, ofcourse.
    2. Can I insist I do not want to sell my 50% ownership? - Not if a court orders you to sell
    I would think buyers for her 50% of a small remote 3 bed chalet with barns / wood store on a 4 acre plot with no planning option to expand (been refused - green belt etc) would be limited. Thus the value would be less. - That's not how it works.


    3. Do I have any rights as I am living there at present. - Yes, but that wont stop a sale. No tenancy or rental agreement is in place though. - why would it be, you're an owner. I have modernised the property spending approx. £15000 of my own money. Some before and some after she took 1/2 ownership. This will have increased value in my mind.


    Are there tax implications to my sister if the property signed over to her by our mother is sold? - not your concern Or does this only become an issue should mum pass away before the 7 year cut off? - not your concern


    Bit of a nightmare scenario. As you may detect we are not the closest of siblings any way.
    Before I make any comment I thought I should try and understand my rights and see if anyone has any experience of a similar issue. Its a loooong drive to the nearest solicitor but that will be the inevitable course to take should my sister move forward in this regard.



    Ta for reading.
    Originally posted by beefster


    The best / only way to keep the property is for you to buy her out.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 19th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,765 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    Do you and your sister own the property as joint tenants or tenants in common?
    Originally posted by Pricivius
    It must be tenants in common, as otherwise the mother would not own a share and could not pass it on.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 19th Jun 17, 1:55 PM
    • 2,215 Posts
    • 3,138 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:55 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 1:55 PM
    Are you looking for solutions to the problem, or ways to be difficult and thwart your sister?

    Seems to me the easiest and most amicable solution for everyone is for you to buy her out. She liquidates her asset, you retain the family home for future generations, everyone's happy.

    If you can't afford this, then sorry, but there's little you can do, other than drag things out and create bad feeling. But the end result will be the same. And besides, why should you keep 100% of the house, and she efectively get nothing? Furthermore, spending £15k on something you only own half of isn't the soundest of ideas...

    So, what are your real motives, or what would your desired outcome be?
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 19th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
    • 5,550 Posts
    • 4,933 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
    ultimately to "force" the sale she will need to get a court order

    that takes time and can cost thousands of £, but it will also cost you £ to present your case in defence. The court will decide and you may lose...

    Meantime your family relationship is wrecked. Of course the family relationship will probably be wrecked anyway since you do not want to be forced from your (emotional) home and she (not unreasonably) wants her share of the money which you are currently denying her

    as said, you need to buy her out, however as a co-owner you also have a say in which of the sealed bids is accepted - but that simply brings you back to court action...

    whichever way it ends up, it looks like you just lost a sister.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 19th Jun 17, 2:16 PM
    • 7,671 Posts
    • 8,280 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 2:16 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 2:16 PM
    Does the property have an agricultural workers only restriction about who can live in it? If so that would limit the value which is good for you.

    Best case would be you and your system come to an agreement about its value and you buy out her half.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 19th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • 8,606 Posts
    • 5,093 Thanks
    teddysmum
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    You are better owning outright, as should mum need care and not have sufficient resources, your sister's part may be considered to be a deprivation of assets, which can cause huge problems. However, your part is not involved, as it was not passed over from your mum.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 19th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    • 23,633 Posts
    • 13,761 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    You might get a professional valuation (RICS) = http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/agricultural-land-prices/

    Your mother was living in the property at the time she made the gift to your sister but has now moved elsewhere?

    There may be CGT implications for your sister on sale.

    Have you explored the possibility of buying your sister out?
    • jbainbridge
    • By jbainbridge 19th Jun 17, 6:14 PM
    • 1,735 Posts
    • 1,125 Thanks
    jbainbridge
    Look at it from your sisters point of view - she might own 50% of the property but gets no benefit from it. You on the other hand own 50% but pretty much get the benefit of 100% of the property. Sorry, but your sister does have a point. You should buy her out or sell it.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 19th Jun 17, 6:45 PM
    • 42,255 Posts
    • 49,059 Thanks
    G_M
    I agree with everyone else. Best solution for all is for you to buy her out.

    * she gets her £
    * you own your family home
    * family relationship is not torn apart by legal argument
    * lawyers don't get rich.

    Ther are perhaps some compromise positions you could discuss if you can't afford to buy her out or get a mortgage - assuming you are on speaking terms. eg

    * you start paying her a fair rent for the 50% of her land that you are using
    * you buy her out over time eg pay her for another 15% this year, 15% next year, and her remaining 20% the following year (or similar)
    * your mum buys back 50% from your sister

    Out of interest (just nosey), how come you inherited 50% (presumaby from your dad...?) and she did not?
    • beefster
    • By beefster 22nd Jun 17, 8:55 PM
    • 720 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    beefster
    Calmed down a bit now.... It was our grand parents home. I suppose as I grew up visiting the place almost daily and have looked after the place for 40 years through my grand parents old age as they lived there and even when my sister lived there...... Sentiment is high for me.

    One half was left to myself and the other to my mother when each grand parent died. My sister was (and poss still) not in a good state at the time and my grand parent wanted to protect the property from her and her from herself with too much cash to hand.... so left it to mum.

    Reason I asked about tax implications is sis has had huge financial issues previously and although we are not close I would not want her and my nephew to be caught out and go through that again.

    i totally get she is entitled. I doubt I can buy her out. I offered to pay rent.... No reply. Now she wants to sell. Wants the lump sum asap. So as detailed above its buy her out or sell up. I get it.......

    Will get a valuation and see where we go from there. Sad though that is.
    Off to get a lottery ticket )
    Last edited by beefster; 22-06-2017 at 9:02 PM.
    I save so I can spend.
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