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    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 18th Jun 17, 7:00 PM
    • 40Posts
    • 3Thanks
    caminch1993
    County court claim for parking please help
    • #1
    • 18th Jun 17, 7:00 PM
    County court claim for parking please help 18th Jun 17 at 7:00 PM
    I wondered if any one can help me....

    i was renting a property that was patrolled by UKPC.
    i received numerous parking tickets, including ones on bank holidays such as new years day... I received tickets at 9,10,11pm which i didnt believe i had to pay! Now 18 months later i have received
    a claim form from SCS law for an amount that totals £1090.
    As i was about to pay this, my brother advised me of this thread and suggested posting a thread to see if anybody can help me or let me know how to go about either defending myself, or just paying the charge..... I have drafted an email in which i used one of you're templates......

    In the County Court Business Centre
    Between:
    UK PARKING CONTROLS
    V
    CAMERON INCH

    I, CAMERON INCH, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:


    1. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    (a) There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.

    (b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    (c) The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.

    (d) The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.

    e) The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.

    f) Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

    i. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge

    ii. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)

    iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)

    iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper

    v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter

    vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    g) Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.

    2. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper.

    3. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    4. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    a) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
    b) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
    c) Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    (ii) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (iii) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (iv) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    (v) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    d) BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.

    5. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed UKPC do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    6. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    7. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    (a) failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 12 June 2017

    (b) Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

    Signed
    Cameron Inch
    Date
    17/06/2017
Page 5
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 6th Dec 17, 10:00 PM
    • 329 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    claxtome
    Not looked at your thread in detail but looks like you have been listening to advice.

    I had my day in court a couple of months ago and suggest 3 things:
    1) If possible have a smart phone (0r other device) fully charged in case you need some help from the forum whilst waiting to go in.
    (This was invaluable for me as got handed evidence on the day which was told to not accept by the forum)
    2) If possible, and have the means to do it, have a spare copy of your bundle/skeleton/costs in case the original one has got mislaid.
    3) Be prepared to give the judge a copy of any case you are relying on - summary of judgement.

    Good luck with your day in court.
    Last edited by claxtome; 07-12-2017 at 12:47 PM.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Dec 17, 12:16 PM
    • 1,812 Posts
    • 3,200 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Good luck today
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 7th Dec 17, 1:11 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    caminch1993
    Hey guys

    So having been at the court from 930am me and the claimant was called into a room at 1pm am and told the case would be adjourned as they have no time basically.
    The claimant responded asking that the defendant shall have to pay the claimants fees again for re attendance at court.. this is not my fault surely?
    He also said about the costs being reserved and th judge confirmed that.. what does this mean?

    The claimant clearly think they are going to win this case as seemed very confident he wanted a hearing slot for 90 minutes minimum. Any advice or guidance would help

    The judge suggested possibly trying to settle out of th court, as I would have to take another day off work which is true.

    What’s my options?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Dec 17, 1:16 PM
    • 1,812 Posts
    • 3,200 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    this is not my fault surely
    No it's nothing to do with you as it is the court's issue but again you have to be aware UKPC's bod will say anything to worry you. Next time go in ready to argue their bod has no Rights of Audience. Did you get their name?

    Costs will always be "reserved" which basically is the judge telling the other side - on your bike if you think you can ask for costs when you haven't proven your case.

    And the "settling" is hard-wired into the court system so the court will always says that.

    Someone described as playing a game where no-one has told you the rules. That how it comes over to most newbies.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 7th Dec 17, 1:41 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    caminch1993
    Ok so nothing for me to do just wait for a new date

    He approaches me after and took my number as he said he will contact scs to see about settling So we will see how that goEs

    Can’t remebee his name but it was a different person to who done the statement
    I felt like he could definitley overwhelm me in front of a judge with his knowledge? Probably abit less confident of winning now after this morning!
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 7th Dec 17, 1:46 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    caminch1993
    He also said that the claimant will be putting forward anoTher costs schedule that I would be liable to be pay if they won
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Dec 17, 2:43 PM
    • 1,812 Posts
    • 3,200 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    He also said that the claimant will be putting forward anoTher costs schedule that I would be liable to be pay if they won
    That's on top of the uncollectable £500 they gave you before? You really must stop taking their nonsense at face value. The judge will deal with them.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 8th Dec 17, 6:36 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    caminch1993
    So the judge mentioned I can claim compensation from them for the day yesterday? How would I go about this? Any links or threads with similar story?
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 8th Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    • 734 Posts
    • 1,360 Thanks
    Johnersh
    So having been at the court from 930am me and the claimant was called into a room at 1pm am and told the case would be adjourned as they have no time basically.
    That'll be the effects of the government's 38% cuts to the courts service and MoJ. Most voters are rarely at the "coal face" to see the realities. Sorry it happened to you.

    Costs will always be "reserved" which basically is the judge telling the other side - on your bike if you think you can ask for costs when you haven't proven your case.
    More precisely it means costs are rolled over to be dealt with at the final hearing. That is common to both. Thus if caminch1993 wins next time, he will be allowed to claim the wasted costs of yesterday (and he'd do well to remind the claimant of that).

    That's on top of the uncollectable £500 they gave you before? You really must stop taking their nonsense
    Each parking charge MAY be recoverable under contract and fixed court fees certainly are in the event of a loss. Once we come to what are, in effect, legal fees and interest it all becomes much harder for them (albeit not impossible).

    The claimant clearly think they are going to win this case as seemed very confident he wanted a hearing slot for 90 minutes minimum. Any advice or guidance would help
    Probably just "willy waving" there's a temptation to do that if you think your opponent is inexperienced. It's ill-advised since if the Claimant has it handed to him, (a) you'll be much more smug and (b) he'll look like such a bell-end that the local campanologist will take an interest...

    So. Back to preparing your case and making sure you can win this thing. I'm afraid I've never embarked on the tortuous process of trying to get costs off HMCTS for wasting my time (and FWIW half a day isn't even a lot of wasted time - I've had worse)!
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 8th Dec 17, 11:15 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    caminch1993
    Thank you both for your comments
    They are invaluable to me and UKPC would certainly be £1000+ richer if it wasn’t for you guys

    So in terms of defending is there anything else I can do? Do the witness statements eg just get rolled over? Or is new evidence allowed to be submitted? Or is it simply sit tight and wait for a new hearing date?
    Oh believe me it would be very good to see the smug look on his face be wiped if it was found in my favour.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Dec 17, 12:00 PM
    • 1,144 Posts
    • 1,172 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Everything should just get rolled across. Watch out for the new hearing letter and READ CAREFULLY to make sure nothing new is in there. There should NOT, for example be an order to exchange documents - like you had in your first hearing letter - unless the court feels like more was needed.

    Dont worry. THey are paid to look confident. THey also know (roughly, we've seen some rubbish advocates on here!) what theyre doing. This is still new for you.
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