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  • FIRST POST
    • Zinzan007
    • By Zinzan007 17th Jun 17, 11:04 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Zinzan007
    Hi, New Challenge
    • #1
    • 17th Jun 17, 11:04 AM
    Hi, New Challenge 17th Jun 17 at 11:04 AM
    Hi all,
    A really good resource here - thanks to all for contributing!

    I have read through the newbie posts and attained some great info, however I'm struggling to find out a few things about how to initially appeal.

    The situation:
    The driver of a car that I am the registered keeper for allegedly parked on private land intended for residents only. It is managed by a PCM who is a BPA member and has a sign with AOS mark on it. They have forwarded to a PCC, who is also a member of BPA and AOS.

    Not that this may matter, but this has been convention for non residents to park in the private road and the bays for 3+ years continuously without any issues or PCN's being issued. This is because the building that the parking bays and land belongs to, the residents do not actually have any vehicles and so the spaces remain empty every day (there is a parking shortage in the street so non-residents use these spaces). Recently, new signs were erected and a new company is managing the premises.

    Signage exists next to the marked parking bays, but not on the private road that is beside them. There is no entrance sign either. You cannot easily read the signs from the private side road, certainly not without getting out of the car.

    The driver allegedly parked on the private road adjacent to the marked bays, without blocking anyone nor in any way inconveniencing anyone. The signs only appear to apply to the bays as they were in an adjacent area. The parking bays are numbered for the corresponding apartment residents - they are not used. The time period for issuing the PCN was 4 minutes - from noticing the vehicle to issuing the charge notice.

    A PCN was issued to the vehicle windscreen from the parking management company. The driver did not respond to this within 28 days. A NTK was then sent the registered keeper from a different parking collection company. The charges were different on each notice with no indication as to what the additional amount was for. There is no parking 'period' of 4 mins referred to on the NTK (but was on the PCN). There is no further discount period on the NTK.

    My questions are:
    Should the registered keeper now appeal to the Parking Collection company only, or should they also still contact the original parking management company as well?

    Should they cc in the landowner and both the PCC and PCM on the NTK challenge?

    Also, when appealing, it may be advantageous to raise the following requests with them. Please can you confirm i'm on the right lines here. Ask questions firstly to ascertain their status to issue the charge notice.

    *Adequate Signage (size, position, legibility, readable in dusk, placement, planning permission)
    *Type of breach (contract damages, trespass, contractural sum)
    *Collection company and parking management company status and authority with regards to the landowner
    *The PCC status as an authorised subcontractor of the PMC and PMC for landowner
    *Description of genuine loss incurred if a breach is upheld
    *Supply of accompanying evidence with the NTK
    *Adherence to the BPA code of conduct: timelines, format, contents of notices.
    *Photographic evidence
    *Request of a POPLA code

    Many thanks in advance for your help with this. £95 and then £120 pounds for allegedly parking in a private area that does not inconvenience anyone, and that has been convention for surrounding non-residents for 3+years seems very harsh response and even a 'penalty'.

    Regards
    Zin
    Last edited by Zinzan007; 17-06-2017 at 11:08 AM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Jun 17, 2:50 PM
    • 40,189 Posts
    • 80,274 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 17th Jun 17, 2:50 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Jun 17, 2:50 PM
    Please give us the name of the parking company. The only one I can find with the initials PCM is an IPC member, as is the company with the initials PCC.

    It is important to establish who you are dealing with first.

    Next, read the NEWBIES thread and send the relevant template letter you will find there.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jun 17, 9:56 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 17th Jun 17, 9:56 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Jun 17, 9:56 PM
    Should the registered keeper now appeal to the Parking Collection company only,
    The appeal goes to whoever the PCS letter says. Hope you realise it's just paying lip service to a challenge and the case will be won, not by some sort of 'appeal' but only in court (or cancelled by the Managing Agents if the leaseholder/tenant complains loud enough).

    PCM are in the IPC, not the BPA AOS. So no POPLA, no appeal that works. This is their calibre, watch the video:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72387632#post72387632

    Also, when appealing, it may be advantageous to raise the following requests with them.
    Makes no difference, it will be rejected. So don't sweat about an appeal, just don't say who was driving.

    Do dig out the lease/tenancy and do complain to the Managing Agents in the style of the threads by:

    hairray

    infernouk

    Daniel san
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-06-2017 at 3:01 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Zinzan007
    • By Zinzan007 18th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Zinzan007
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    Thanks
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    Thanks all,

    The companies are: spring parking ltd and Parking Collection Services. Both are in BPA. I will get the templates as advised

    So I'm hearing to reject the appeal directly with PCS and to also complain to both spring parking and the land owner , and not to declare driver? Then await court or a cancellation.

    I did read the newbie thread but could not find anything about my scenario and this question, so posted. Looks as though I'm on the right lines though.

    Regs
    Zin
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Jun 17, 9:40 AM
    • 14,034 Posts
    • 22,042 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 17, 9:40 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 17, 9:40 AM
    So I'm hearing to reject the appeal directly with PCS and to also complain to both spring parking and the land owner
    Send the NEWBIES sticky initial appeal to both Spring Parking and Parking Collection Services. Complain only to the landowner.

    I did read the newbie thread but could not find anything about my scenario and this question, so posted.
    The sticky is designed to cover all types of private parking tickets. There is a myriad of different scenarios - basically any way in which a PPC can snatch your cash is a scenario - and they make them up as they go along. So looking for an 'exact fit' is a rather futile search.

    Looks as though I'm on the right lines though.
    Yes
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th Jun 17, 10:15 AM
    • 40,189 Posts
    • 80,274 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 17, 10:15 AM
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 17, 10:15 AM
    Thanks all,

    The companies are: spring parking ltd and Parking Collection Services. Both are in BPA. I will get the templates as advised

    So I'm hearing to reject the appeal directly with PCS and to also complain to both spring parking and the land owner , and not to declare driver? Then await court or a cancellation.

    I did read the newbie thread but could not find anything about my scenario and this question, so posted. Looks as though I'm on the right lines though.

    Regs
    Zin
    Originally posted by Zinzan007
    So not PCM (or PMC as you also said) at all then, hence my question. PCS is the trading name of Debt Recovery Plus (DRP), as is Zenith Collections. Watch out for debt crawler letters from the same address but with different letter heads.

    As above, send the BPA template in blue as keeper and await for a cancellation or more likely, a rejection and PoPLA code. This assumes you are within the 28 day appeal window from the keeper received the NTK. Even if they are not, send it anyway.
    Do not reveal the driver's identity to anyone.

    In addition, complain to the landowner.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Jun 17, 3:02 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 17, 3:02 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 17, 3:02 PM
    spring parking ltd
    LOL! A tiny, insignificant little firm, that can be blown over like a feather at POPLA.

    Not 'PCM' then.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Zinzan007
    • By Zinzan007 19th Jun 17, 7:26 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Zinzan007
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:26 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:26 AM
    Ah yes, apols I was using abbreviations to mean: Parking management company and parking collection company.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 6:45 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:45 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:45 PM
    I wouldn't describe Spring (or any other PPC) as involved in 'parking management'!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Jun 17, 8:29 PM
    • 14,034 Posts
    • 22,042 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I wouldn't describe Spring (or any other PPC) as involved in 'parking management'!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I prefer 'parking mongering'!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 8:43 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Running ruining a car park near you...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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