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  • FIRST POST
    • Carz88
    • By Carz88 16th Jun 17, 10:32 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Carz88
    County Court Claim Form - CEL
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:32 PM
    County Court Claim Form - CEL 16th Jun 17 at 10:32 PM
    CEL have sent a Claim form from the county court business centre in Northampton.

    I would like to appeal this claim. The area im accused of entering is an underground permit car park at a building site. I drove down to the car park and was told by a site foreman that I couldn't park there that day and was told to turn around. (I usually enter number plate with concierge) I reversed my car into the exit of the permit area and left.

    A few weeks later a PCN came through and I ignored it. I received another fine I sent a letter recorded delivery no reply, sent another letter no reply. I then emailed Civil Enforcement LTD saying I would not take liability for this ticket and the reply I got was basically tough.

    Forward a few months and now I have this Claim Form for outstanding debt and damages,

    I have read the sticky and still confused.

    any help would be great
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 10:52 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:52 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:52 PM
    I drove down to the car park and was told by a site foreman that I couldn't park there that day and was told to turn around. (I usually enter number plate with concierge) I reversed my car into the exit of the permit area and left.
    Wow, typical of such scammers to issue a PCN for 'not parking'.

    I would like to appeal this claim.
    Defend, not appeal - big difference. But dead easy with CEL to get it stayed (no hearings in any cases we've helped with).

    Just copy one from one of the dozens of CEL defences on here this year. Search 'CEL stayed claim'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Carz88
    • By Carz88 16th Jun 17, 11:23 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carz88
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:23 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:23 PM
    In the County Court Business Centre
    Between:
    Civil Enforcement Limited
    V
    DEFENDANT

    I, DEFENDANT, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. The Claim Form issued on the 12 Jun 2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited”.

    2. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    (a) There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.

    (b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    (c) The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.

    (d) The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.

    e) The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.

    f) Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

    i. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge

    ii. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)

    iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)

    iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper

    v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter

    vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    g) Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.

    3. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £325.28 for outstanding debt and damages.

    4. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred

    5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    6. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    a) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
    b) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
    c) Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    (ii) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (iii) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (iv) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    (v) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    d) BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.

    7. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    8. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    9. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    (a) failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 12 June 2017

    (b) Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

    Signed
    Date
    • Carz88
    • By Carz88 16th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carz88
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    So when I acknowledge the Claim form shall I add this in my defence and then send a copy recorded delivery to CEL?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 11:29 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:29 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:29 PM
    Yes, go for it. That defence should kill it.

    But we recommend only the AOS is done online, and that the actual defence then follows, by email to the CCBC (and a copy emailed to CEL to shut them up...).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • waamo
    • By waamo 16th Jun 17, 11:44 PM
    • 1,914 Posts
    • 2,300 Thanks
    waamo
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:44 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:44 PM
    Don't use recorded delivery. They often refuse to sign and it's a waste of money. Use first class post with free proof of posting. Under current law if they claim they didn't get it that's not good enough. They have to provide evidence they didn't get it. That's very hard to do.
    This space for hire.
    • Carz88
    • By Carz88 16th Jun 17, 11:47 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carz88
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:47 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:47 PM
    So i do not add any of the defence online at any point and just email CCBC and add CEL. Thanks for your help
    • Carz88
    • By Carz88 17th Jun 17, 12:00 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carz88
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 17, 12:00 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 17, 12:00 AM
    and obviously when i send by post just send it to CEL and not CCBC
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jun 17, 8:23 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,418 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 17, 8:23 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 17, 8:23 PM
    I would just email both. No need to waste a stamp on them, at all.

    CEL have an email addy on their NTKs, if not on yours then on every one you will find when Google image searching for previous forum examples.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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