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  • FIRST POST
    • J E Foster
    • By J E Foster 16th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    J E Foster
    EON heatwise advice
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    EON heatwise advice 16th Jun 17 at 4:06 PM
    We are currently on heatwise for our hot water only ( we have gas heating)and economy 7 for all other electricity. EON have advised that they are ending this tarrif where we currently have the 5 different meter readings, including boost which we have never used. We have a choice of a standard unrestricted meter, economy 10 or economy 7. I have no idea which will be the best option.
    I understand how at present our hot water takes electricity on lower heatwise tarrif at certain times of the day but when does it take this as we have no timer to use? is it just as heatwise times when needed to top it up?
    If we go to say economy 7 how will the heatwise be wired in ?will the hot water just take from economy 7 rate electric at night or will it take from the expensive day rates if needed?
    If we went unrestricted meter am i looking at using the same amount of units as now just at one rate?
    Apologies for all the questions and thank you in advance
    As we only use approx 25% of our electric on heatwise would we be better off on an unrestricted meter?
Page 1
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 16th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    • 3,387 Posts
    • 1,331 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    We are currently on heatwise for our hot water only ( we have gas heating)and economy 7 for all other electricity. EON have advised that they are ending this tarrif where we currently have the 5 different meter readings, including boost which we have never used. We have a choice of a standard unrestricted meter, economy 10 or economy 7. I have no idea which will be the best option.
    I understand how at present our hot water takes electricity on lower heatwise tarrif at certain times of the day but when does it take this as we have no timer to use? is it just as heatwise times when needed to top it up?
    If we go to say economy 7 how will the heatwise be wired in ?will the hot water just take from economy 7 rate electric at night or will it take from the expensive day rates if needed?
    If we went unrestricted meter am i looking at using the same amount of units as now just at one rate?
    Apologies for all the questions and thank you in advance
    As we only use approx 25% of our electric on heatwise would we be better off on an unrestricted meter?
    Originally posted by J E Foster
    If you have heatwise, you don't currently have Economy 7

    You may currently have 2 meters which is what may be confusing you, but it will all be heatwise.

    Do not attempt to switch supplier with this type of metering.
    Seek expert advice before thinking of requesting alternative metering - the expert will need to sort out all the wiring for you beforte you get new metering - you may also need some new appliances (but it sounds like you've already gone ahead and started getting new appliances without unbderstanding what you already had)

    Good luck
    ... oh, and welcome back btw
    • molerat
    • By molerat 16th Jun 17, 8:03 PM
    • 16,620 Posts
    • 10,837 Thanks
    molerat
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 8:03 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 8:03 PM
    With that % off peak use it is unlikely E7 will be economical, you could put your total use into a comparison site and compare single rate and E7 prices.

    Your restricted circuits are connected directly to that meter so will only come on during those periods, E7 will behave the same. Have they indicated who is responsible for altering any wiring with this change - maybe as it is a forced switch they will pick up the tab.

    Why are you not heating water with the gas, I experimented many years ago and found it much more economic than electric, maybe heatwise made it worthwhile.
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    • J E Foster
    • By J E Foster 16th Jun 17, 9:30 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    J E Foster
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:30 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:30 PM
    molerat we had no choice re gas bought a new house and this is unfortunately the set us the builders gave this estate. Surprise surprise eon have only said we need to change our meter and have not said any rewiring will be needed but having read this forum it seems to indicate it could be. Would like tp move to an unrestricted meter and be able to shop around but no idea if this will cause us issues with the hot water system if its permantely wired in.
    • J E Foster
    • By J E Foster 16th Jun 17, 9:32 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    J E Foster
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:32 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:32 PM
    footyguy weve not replaced anything bought the house from new 20 years ago and came with gas central heating and heatwise hot water which as I now understand is a very strange set up
    • molerat
    • By molerat 16th Jun 17, 9:56 PM
    • 16,620 Posts
    • 10,837 Thanks
    molerat
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:56 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:56 PM
    If it only feeds the hot water then there is unlikely any wiring changes needed whichever you choose. You certainly need to do the maths over which way to go but if you choose E7 E.On are one of the suppliers that will let you have a single rate with an E7 meter, they just add the 2 reads together.

    Certainly a strange set up, why would anyone in their right mind install gas CH and electric water - unless of course they were getting a kick back (sorry, incentive) from the electricity board - as it could never be economical, it was designed for use with electric heating !
    Last edited by molerat; 16-06-2017 at 9:58 PM.
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    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 17th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • 282 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    Raxiel
    • #7
    • 17th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    If it only feeds the hot water then there is unlikely any wiring changes needed whichever you choose. You certainly need to do the maths over which way to go but if you choose E7 E.On are one of the suppliers that will let you have a single rate with an E7 meter, they just add the 2 reads together.

    Certainly a strange set up, why would anyone in their right mind install gas CH and electric water - unless of course they were getting a kick back (sorry, incentive) from the electricity board - as it could never be economical, it was designed for use with electric heating !
    Originally posted by molerat
    Possibly because 'instant' electric water heating is faster to react than gas (the time it takes for the hot water to get from the heater/boiler to the tap aside)? Still not economical but may have been dreamt up as a convenience feature by someone who wouldn't have to live with it.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    • #8
    • 21st Jun 17, 11:52 AM
    E.ON Heatwise Meters
    • #8
    • 21st Jun 17, 11:52 AM
    We are currently on heatwise for our hot water only ( we have gas heating)and economy 7 for all other electricity. EON have advised that they are ending this tarrif where we currently have the 5 different meter readings, including boost which we have never used. We have a choice of a standard unrestricted meter, economy 10 or economy 7. I have no idea which will be the best option.
    I understand how at present our hot water takes electricity on lower heatwise tarrif at certain times of the day but when does it take this as we have no timer to use? is it just as heatwise times when needed to top it up?
    If we go to say economy 7 how will the heatwise be wired in ?will the hot water just take from economy 7 rate electric at night or will it take from the expensive day rates if needed?
    If we went unrestricted meter am i looking at using the same amount of units as now just at one rate?
    Apologies for all the questions and thank you in advance
    As we only use approx 25% of our electric on heatwise would we be better off on an unrestricted meter?
    Originally posted by J E Foster
    Hello J E Foster and sounds like your metering set up is Heatwise with Economy 7. These arrangements have one meter with five readings. If it was installed like this from new with gas as the main form of heating then, I agree, it's a bit unusual. With new builds, we fit meters as requested by the builder, developer or their agents. Thought it might help to give you some information about Heatwise meters and the alternatives we're talking about. Sorry in advance if I go on a bit.

    Heatwise meters were designed mainly for all electric properties with storage heaters and electric water immersion heaters. They're set up to give 10 hours of cheaper off peak electricity during every 24 hours for heating and hot water. This is split into 3 time slots during the afternoon, in the evening and at night. The times can vary depending on where you live and the make of meter fitted. If you contact us, we'll be happy to let you know the times the off peak rates kick in.

    To work, the meter will be wired directly into the water heating circuits. Unless manually overridden, this lets the meter automatically turn the water heating on during the off peak periods and off again afterwards. During these times, all electricity used for hot water will go through these dedicated circuits and be charged at the cheaper prices. The amount used will be recorded as separate meter readings.

    The Heatwise is part of a conventional meter that records all other usage. As you've Economy 7, you'll have 7 hours off peak electricity for all usage at night. Again, these hours vary depending on where you are. Any electricity used during these times will be recorded as separate meter readings and charged at cheaper prices too.

    We've only ever had the one tariff for Heatwise and, as you say, this is being replaced. We'll still only have the one tariff but this will be based on our standard Energy Plan prices.

    Heatwise meters are nearing the end of their shelf life and we're looking to replace them. We'll have written to you with the options currently available. We're offering a choice of a two rate Economy 10, the more conventional Economy 7 or a single rate.

    Economy 10 meters are fitted in the same way as your existing Heatwise meter. It will be wired into the relevant circuits so the water heating can be used as now. There's still 10 hours at off peak prices in each 24 hour period at night, in the afternoon and during the evening but this is for all usage. There isn't a boost option though. Also like Heatwise, we've only the one tariff available. Meter switching times still vary depending on where you are and the make of Economy 10 fitted but will be roughly in line with your current Heatwise times.

    There'll also be the option of having a single rate or Economy 7 meter. Either of these will give you access to more tariffs both with us and with the other suppliers. These meters might not suit the current water heating set up and I suggest talking to a qualified electrician before going down this route. We don't charge to replace Heatwise meters. Any remedial work will depend on the individual circumstances. At the moment, if necessary, these associated costs are the customer's responsibility.

    Following their report last year, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) introduced a number of new protections for customers with restricted meters like Heatwise. We're currently working on these measures and are looking to have the results in place later this year.

    If you decide to go for Economy 7, all electricity used during the 7 continuous hours at night will be charged at off peak prices. Anything used outside of these times, including for hot water, will be charged at the higher peak rate. Although Economy 7 off peak rates are cheaper, peak usage is charged at a premium rate compared with single rate tariffs. To benefit, you need to use a significant amount of electricity during the off peak times. The actual amount depends on the region and tariff.

    We've a specialist team who look after these types of meter exchanges and they'll be able to give you more information. Their contact details will be on the letter we've sent. Alternatively, please phone our general number (on your bills and our website) and ask for the Simpler Metering team. Whatever option you go for, this team will be able to book the appointment for you as well.

    Sorry to ramble on J E Foster but hope it's of interest.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    • #9
    • 21st Jun 17, 1:07 PM
    E.ON Heatwise Meters
    • #9
    • 21st Jun 17, 1:07 PM
    If you have heatwise, you don't currently have Economy 7

    You may currently have 2 meters which is what may be confusing you, but it will all be heatwise.

    Do not attempt to switch supplier with this type of metering.
    Seek expert advice before thinking of requesting alternative metering - the expert will need to sort out all the wiring for you beforte you get new metering - you may also need some new appliances (but it sounds like you've already gone ahead and started getting new appliances without unbderstanding what you already had)

    Good luck
    ... oh, and welcome back btw
    Originally posted by footyguy

    Just for information footyguy. Heatwise came in two forms. Either with a single rate or Economy 7 part to record usage not going through the dedicated heating/hot water circuits (please see above). Depending on which version a customer has, there are 4 (single rate) or 5 (Economy 7) readings. Two will be for heating/hot water, one for the boost facility and one (single rate) or two (day/night) for general usage.

    This has always been contained in the one meter but with two Meter Point Admin Numbers (MPANs).

    Hope this is of interest.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Heatwise Meters
    If it only feeds the hot water then there is unlikely any wiring changes needed whichever you choose. You certainly need to do the maths over which way to go but if you choose E7 E.On are one of the suppliers that will let you have a single rate with an E7 meter, they just add the 2 reads together.

    Certainly a strange set up, why would anyone in their right mind install gas CH and electric water - unless of course they were getting a kick back (sorry, incentive) from the electricity board - as it could never be economical, it was designed for use with electric heating !
    Originally posted by molerat
    You're right on the tariffs for standalone Economy 7 meters molerat. Customers with these can go on to single rate tariffs. As you say, we add the day and night usage together and charge it all at the one price. They can do the switch through our website too.

    It's different, though, where the Economy 7 is part of a Heatwise set up. As with all restricted meters we support, adding usage from the different registers together and charging at the one price is not currently possible. This is something we're looking at as part of changes being made in light of the CMA report I mentioned above.

    Hope this is of interest molerat.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • J E Foster
    • By J E Foster 21st Jun 17, 9:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    J E Foster
    Malc thank you for the replies. What I do not understand is why we need to consult an electrician before choosing to go down the unretsricted meter route? Have already spoken twice to the EON team but they werent much help cannot even give me quotes for various tarrif deals on an ecomomy 7 meter as i dont currently have one!. Im assuming if we go down route of an unrestricted meter i am looking at using the same amount of units as now just at one rate?
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Heatwise Meters
    Malc thank you for the replies. What I do not understand is why we need to consult an electrician before choosing to go down the unretsricted meter route? Have already spoken twice to the EON team but they werent much help cannot even give me quotes for various tarrif deals on an ecomomy 7 meter as i dont currently have one!. Im assuming if we go down route of an unrestricted meter i am looking at using the same amount of units as now just at one rate?
    Originally posted by J E Foster
    Morning J E Foster.

    Consulting an electrician is a recommendation only. There might be no need. It depends on the circumstances at each property.

    Heatwise meters are wired into the dedicated heating/water heating circuits at individual properties. This is so they can automatically turn the heating/hot water on and off to take advantage of cheaper prices during the off peak times. Experience has shown us that changing to a different type of meter can sometimes have an impact on these services. It very much depends on the individual circumstances and these vary between properties.

    Our responsibility ends at the meter. Anything beyond that is down to the customer as we've no knowledge of individual arrangements at a customer's home. We do, though, have a duty of care to make customers aware of the potential effects of changing to a different type of meter. This helps them make an informed decision.

    As you've gas heating and only use the Heatwise for hot water, the potential impact will be less than if your full heating system was based around the Heatwise meter. Nevertheless, it's important to make you aware of the possible pitfalls. This advice comes from experienced technicians working out in the field.

    When you phoned us, did you speak to the specialist Simpler Metering team I mentioned yesterday? They have much more knowledge of meters like Heatwise and can give you more tailored advice. Our general advisors rarely come across Heatwise meters and don't have the in depth knowledge of the specialists.

    You're right, changing the meter won't affect the amount of electricity used. It'll just be recorded differently. All the tariffs we currently have on sale are on our website but you won't be able to do a tailored quote for your home through there as it will pick up the current meter. Similarly with the independent comparison sites. Best to look at the individual unit prices and standing charges so you can do a manual calculation based on your specific usage. We'll be happy to let you have our prices. For a wider comparison, you'll need to ask the other suppliers for their prices.

    Hope this points you in the right direction J E Foster. Let me know if you need any more advice as happy to help.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • aaajjj
    • By aaajjj 17th Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    aaajjj
    In the same situation, I would expect a small wiring alteration due to the following in my instance:
    the existing meter scrolls thru three readings boost, normal, and evening/afternoon and the cheap rate is output to a contactor which switches the immersion heater on and off at the set times, this feeds direct to only the immersion heater via a secondary consumer unit mounted adjacent to the main consumer unit, so would only expect the feed to the secondary unit to be transferred to the main consumer unit feed and removing the ontactor meter, possibly an hours job at most. As is the usual case it was done this way by the builder but in my case i managed to easily add a boiler feed mainly due to the cyllinder only managing i bath full at a time.
    I am in the process of evaluating which way to go at the moment, due to paying my bill on reciept economy 10 doesnt accept this,
    Last edited by aaajjj; 19-07-2017 at 11:28 AM.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Heatwise Meters
    In the same situation, I would expect a small wiring alteration due to the following in my instance:
    the existing meter scrolls thru three readings boost, normal, and evening/afternoon and the cheap rate is output to a contactor which switches the immersion heater on and off at the set times, this feeds direct to only the immersion heater via a secondary consumer unit mounted adjacent to the main consumer unit, so would only expect the feed to the secondary unit to be transferred to the main consumer unit feed and removing the ontactor meter, possibly an hours job at most. As is the usual case it was done this way by the builder but in my case i managed to easily add a boiler feed mainly due to the cyllinder only managing i bath full at a time.
    I am in the process of evaluating which way to go at the moment, due to paying my bill on reciept economy 10 doesnt accept this,
    Originally posted by aaajjj
    I'd have a chat with our specialist Simpler Metering team aaajjj. As above, they're much more clued up on moving from Heatwise to alternative types of meter.

    Not sure what you mean about Economy 10 not accepting paying bills on receipt. All types of payment method are available with Economy 10 meters. If you let me have a few more details, I'll be happy to try to help further.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Pagett
    • By Pagett 22nd Jul 17, 12:26 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    Pagett
    footyguy weve not replaced anything bought the house from new 20 years ago and came with gas central heating and heatwise hot water which as I now understand is a very strange set up
    Originally posted by J E Foster
    It does indeed sound a very strange set up, but you decided to buy it.
    Buyers remorse?

    Buying a house is usually the most expensive purchase most people ever make in their lives, and it amazes me how many people apparently spend less time and effort investigating things properly before signing on the dotted line, then they may spend contemplating which tin of baked neans to buy at a supermarket.
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