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    • Mrs pbradley936
    • By Mrs pbradley936 16th Jun 17, 3:43 PM
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    Mrs pbradley936
    The Grenfell Tower Fire
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 3:43 PM
    The Grenfell Tower Fire 16th Jun 17 at 3:43 PM
    Hello,

    I am on a thread about this in discussion time and so far nobody has been able to answer a question I had about insurance under these circumstances. If I ask it on here and one of you answers I will take the info to the other thread.

    Promise I won't use space here for a DT topic any more than I have too. So thanks in anticipation and this is my question:

    What would happen if the building regulations were not met? I mean if the cladding was not up to a given standard. Would the insurance companies have a get out?
Page 1
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 16th Jun 17, 3:47 PM
    • 3,636 Posts
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    csgohan4
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 3:47 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 3:47 PM
    what about if the damage was deliberately caused by arson? alot of insurers have malicious damage exclusions as well
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • rudekid48
    • By rudekid48 16th Jun 17, 4:36 PM
    • 1,995 Posts
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    rudekid48
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:36 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:36 PM
    Are you coming at this from the perspective of the tenants (I.e. Contents cover) or the owners (I.e. Buildings cover)?
    All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
    • Mrs pbradley936
    • By Mrs pbradley936 16th Jun 17, 7:47 PM
    • 12,578 Posts
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    Mrs pbradley936
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:47 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:47 PM
    Are you coming at this from the perspective of the tenants (I.e. Contents cover) or the owners (I.e. Buildings cover)?
    Originally posted by rudekid48
    I would think the buildings because after what happened a bed or a sofa would be way down the list of priorities surely?
    • ariarnia
    • By ariarnia 16th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    • 1,440 Posts
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    ariarnia
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    To my understanding, for both buildings and contents, as long as the individuals who took out the insurance met all of their liabilities and did not withhold or give false information, the insurance companies are bound to pay according to the terms of the contract.

    If the fire was the result of negligence or malpractice on behalf of the council or their representatives (or arson as long as the arsonist isn't the person making the claim) the companies would then be entitled to a portion of any fine or settlement resulting from the offence to offset their losses.

    Meaning the majority of the individual residents should receive any insurance payment due, plus any compensation relating to injury or death which results from the planned inquest, but that the council (or contractors) may receive a hefty fine for negligence (if they were) and a portion of this might go to the insurance agents.

    But that's based on discussions relating to a house fire some 10 years ago.
    Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you. Anne Lamott

    It's amazing how those with a can-do attitude and willingness to 'pitch in and work' get all the luck, isn't it?
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 16th Jun 17, 9:05 PM
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    comeandgo
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:05 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:05 PM
    Don't know about England, but the council,s in Scotland don't insure the buildings they own. It would cost too much, cheaper to deal with the incidents as they happen.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 16th Jun 17, 11:55 PM
    • 35,667 Posts
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    silvercar
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:55 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:55 PM
    Most tenants would only have contents insurance, so that would in theory pay out for all their belongings and furniture.

    The freeholder of the block is the one that should have buildings insurance and that should pay out the value of the block or the cost of rebuilding the block. Whether they use the money for that or not is immaterial.

    One option may be for the site to be demolished and sold on. That would give more money which, together with the payout, may be enough to replace the housing stock lost.

    Building insurance for tenanted properties can include a payout to rent similar accommodation elsewhere.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 17th Jun 17, 7:47 AM
    • 3,636 Posts
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    csgohan4
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:47 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:47 AM
    Wouldn't want to be the freeholder, the premiums will likely be for a very heavy up lift on renewal
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 17th Jun 17, 7:47 AM
    • 20,185 Posts
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    dacouch
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:47 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:47 AM
    Most tenants would only have contents insurance, so that would in theory pay out for all their belongings and furniture.

    The freeholder of the block is the one that should have buildings insurance and that should pay out the value of the block or the cost of rebuilding the block. Whether they use the money for that or not is immaterial.

    One option may be for the site to be demolished and sold on. That would give more money which, together with the payout, may be enough to replace the housing stock lost.

    Building insurance for tenanted properties can include a payout to rent similar accommodation elsewhere.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    In a block mainly occupied by social housing a very small minority will have taken out contents Insurance.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 17th Jun 17, 10:57 AM
    • 35,667 Posts
    • 150,304 Thanks
    silvercar
    In a block mainly occupied by social housing a very small minority will have taken out contents Insurance.
    Originally posted by dacouch
    I hope you are wrong, even with the unprecedented donations made by the public, contents insurance would have helped considerably.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 17th Jun 17, 8:43 PM
    • 2,681 Posts
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    Aretnap
    I hope you are wrong
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Some stats

    http://www.poverty.org.uk/74/index.shtml
    • Rosemary7391
    • By Rosemary7391 17th Jun 17, 9:11 PM
    • 1,841 Posts
    • 3,184 Thanks
    Rosemary7391
    I would think the buildings because after what happened a bed or a sofa would be way down the list of priorities surely?
    Originally posted by Mrs pbradley936
    Passports and other expensive documents might be pretty high up there though, for the individuals who have to figure out what their next step is. Phones as well - good luck getting organised without one, they certainly won't have landlines anymore.


    May I suggest that a useful exercise might be to make a list of all things in your house and attach a price to them. It adds up alarmingly ! (And would be useful in the event of actually making a claim - it's surprisingly hard to remember what you have in one go.)
    Me escondo detras de mi lengua... tengo miedo de que me entiendas... pero me gustara que me entendases ¡Ayudame!
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 18th Jun 17, 7:01 AM
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    csgohan4
    what happens if you can't prove you own them, assuming all receipts were in the fire and not many online receipts. WHat do the insurers do? do they play hard ball and no proof, no claim
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • Jlo31
    • By Jlo31 18th Jun 17, 8:06 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Jlo31
    Some info on the buildings insurance here http://m.insurancebusinessmag.com/uk/news/breaking-news/revealed-insurance-cost-of-london-grenfell-tower-fire-70477.aspx
    • Rolandtheroadie
    • By Rolandtheroadie 18th Jun 17, 8:36 AM
    • 4,729 Posts
    • 4,156 Thanks
    Rolandtheroadie
    what happens if you can't prove you own them, assuming all receipts were in the fire and not many online receipts. WHat do the insurers do? do they play hard ball and no proof, no claim
    Originally posted by csgohan4
    Mines paid out, only knocking back a few items, mainly tools that were more specific rather than hobby/diy related. (Garage fire)
    Probably only had around 25% of the claim actually provable, but at the same time, the list probably looked honest enough.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 18th Jun 17, 10:19 AM
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    eddddy
    RBKC (i.e. the council) own the freehold of the building. They probably insure their entire portfolio of property, including Grenfell Tower, with a single insurer.

    If somebody is shown to be negligent (e.g. RBKC or KCTMO), the residents can claim for their losses (e.g. contents) from the negligent party.



    BUT... this may be putting RBKC and/or KCTMO in a difficult position. As with most insurers, their insurance policy might say that they must not say anything which sounds like an admission of responsibility.

    Even saying "We're sorry" could be interpreted as an admission of responsibility - so saying it might invalidate their insurance cover.

    That might or might not explain why the council is sounding a bit heartless over this.
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