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  • FIRST POST
    • TedC
    • By TedC 16th Jun 17, 11:51 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 25Thanks
    TedC
    DIY Conveyancing
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:51 AM
    DIY Conveyancing 16th Jun 17 at 11:51 AM
    I am buying my Council Flat under the Right to Buy... no Mortgage required... no searches required ... no survey required ... no valuation required ... only Land Registry documentation required ... the Councils handling agency Your Homes Newcastle are refusing to deal with me ... they will only deal with a Solicitor. I have appealed to the Ombudsman who's draft decision is that because it is a case that can be settled in the local Courts they can not rule on the complaint. Caught between the "Devil & Deep Blue Sea" I would probably have to pay more for a Solicitor to defend me in Court. What can I do? I have dredged the UK Internet for options ... this surely has been asked before .. Help Help Help !!!
Page 1
    • Niv
    • By Niv 16th Jun 17, 12:12 PM
    • 1,530 Posts
    • 1,335 Thanks
    Niv
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:12 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:12 PM
    On the face of it, it sounds like the cheapest and quickest option is to just get a solicitor involved in the purchase.


    Maybe someone with actual knowledge in this area may be along shortly to discredit my thoughts though.
    YNWA

    Target: Mortgage free by 58.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 16th Jun 17, 12:21 PM
    • 2,154 Posts
    • 3,052 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:21 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:21 PM
    Simple conveynacing: a few hundred pounds
    Buying a property: tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds.

    The OP is being penny wise but pound foolish. He know the price of everything and the value of nothing. However, if he doesn't like it, perhaps he should find a seller who will permit his DIY efforts.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th Jun 17, 12:43 PM
    • 41,937 Posts
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:43 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:43 PM
    I'm a great believer in DIY conveyancing..... in the right circumstances.

    Where there are complexities however (or the individual does not have the requisit abilities), it's a false economy.

    You say there's no mortgage required so, yes, that's one potential complexity out of the way.

    Neither the searches, nor survey, are what I'd call 'complexities' so they are irrelevant (though the fact that you mention them both in this context suggests limited understanding of the process which is worrying).

    However, a RTB purchase IS an added complexity. The contracts are non-standard. Additionally, I imagine (though can't be sure) that it's a leasehold purchase, which also adds complexity.

    Additionally, is this a registered property? Is th property part of a larger registered Title requiring splitting (TP1)?

    Clearly I don't know your background, but unless your are particularly exerienced (perhaps legally trained or with a number of previous conveyances under your belt) I'd recommend using a solicitor.

    Your query then also becomes redundant.
    Last edited by G_M; 16-06-2017 at 3:48 PM.
    • TedC
    • By TedC 16th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    TedC
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    Simple conveynacing: a few hundred pounds
    Buying a property: tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds.

    The OP is being penny wise but pound foolish. He know the price of everything and the value of nothing. However, if he doesn't like it, perhaps he should find a seller who will permit his DIY efforts.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    Under the RTB the seller is the Housing Association (Council) cant buy from anyone else.
    • TedC
    • By TedC 16th Jun 17, 4:20 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    TedC
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:20 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:20 PM
    I'm a great believer in DIY conveyancing..... in the right circumstances.

    Where there are complexities however (or the individual does not have the requisit abilities), it's a false economy.

    You say there's no mortgage required so, yes, that's one potential complexity out of the way.

    Neither the searches, nor survey, are what I'd call 'complexities' so they are irrelevant (though the fact that you mention them both in this context suggests limited understanding of the process which is worrying).

    However, a RTB purchase IS an added complexity. The contracts are non-standard. Additionally, I imagine (though can't be sure) that it's a leasehold purchase, which also adds complexity.

    Additionally, is this a registered property? Is th property part of a larger registered Title requiring splitting (TP1)?

    Clearly I don't know your background, but unless your are particularly exerienced (perhaps legally trained or with a number of previous conveyances under your belt) I'd recommend using a solicitor.

    Your query then also becomes redundant.
    Originally posted by G_M
    You are Sir ... I am sure are ... a member of the Legal Fraternity ... not wanting to loose lucrative earnings. You offer further observations that make it look even more complex than it is and conspiratorial ...
    Quote : You are clearly unaware of some of the shenanigans your legal colleagues get up to. As a DIY conveyancer for our own homes purchases (twice), I can certainly testify that there are a number of dirty tricks that solicitors get up to persuade and intimidate people to use them. I haven't the time to give you an exhaustive list, but they range from patronising ("oh, you're doing your own conveyancing, never encountered that before, how.... odd!") to refusal to deal, to raising false SARs, to defamatory accusations that you are breaking the law, to demands to pay full amounts into THEIR trust accounts in advance of exchange of contracts - the list of commonplace bullying behaviour goes on and on and on.
    You may be a good solicitor and an ethical man, Tanel, but your defence of the legal profession is rather naive. There are elements of the legal profession's behaviour in conveyancing that bear more resemblance to a protection racket than a quality assurance system. I would also point out that the 'closed shop' nature of the profession includes plenty of intra-profession protection against anyone being able to successfully complain to any authority about the behaviour of lawyers. This couldn't be designed better to make people give up! The Law Society, the Legal Ombudsman, the Solictors Regulation Authority? Which one? Pick one at random, then go their vague websites, their dysfunctional search engines, and see if you can find a simple path to complain about a rogue solicitor - even to get heard would be a miracle, let alone find a way to have unethical behaviour brought to heel.
    And yes, there is always the old saw that solicitors will know what to do when things go wrong - but solicitors are not intrinsically more logical than lay people, nor necessarily more able to spot errors or predict problems.

    Thank You
    • TedC
    • By TedC 16th Jun 17, 4:27 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    TedC
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:27 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:27 PM
    On the face of it, it sounds like the cheapest and quickest option is to just get a solicitor involved in the purchase.


    Maybe someone with actual knowledge in this area may be along shortly to discredit my thoughts though.
    Originally posted by Niv
    An observation I made to the Ombudsman who will not make a decision that could be handled in a Court ... how absurd ... the cost to me would be much more ...
    Mortgage free by 60 you beat me by 2 years
    Thank You
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 16th Jun 17, 5:18 PM
    • 36,049 Posts
    • 152,271 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #8
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:18 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:18 PM
    You are Sir ... I am sure are ... a member of the Legal Fraternity ... not wanting to loose lucrative earnings. You offer further observations that make it look even more complex than it is and conspiratorial
    Whereas You, who I presume can use a forum, could see that G_M posts helpful advice on many, many occasions. Just because you don't like the advice given, doesn't mean it is wrong.

    If the seller won't deal with you direct and the ombudsman won't force them to, you have no option other than to use a solicitor.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 16th Jun 17, 9:21 PM
    • 2,503 Posts
    • 2,228 Thanks
    da_rule
    • #9
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:21 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jun 17, 9:21 PM
    You could try serving a statutory notice of delay on the Council.

    However, the Council do have two potential arguments:
    1) They have to act in interest of you (their customer as their current tenant), as such them insisting you obtain independent legal advice seems fair as they are in the dominant position
    2) They have a responsibility to ensure the funds they receive are coming from a legitimate source (i.e. money laundering etc) which is something a solicitor would do but not something that the Council themselves would necessarily be able/willing to do themselves

    Obviously Right to Buy is a statutory conveyance and varies from 'traditional' conveyancing as there are hard and fast statutory time limits and often Council's don't exchange contracts on these matters. If you want to apply to the Courts/Tribunal then you'll need to do so before the expiry of the time limits under s.141.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Jun 17, 1:31 AM
    • 41,937 Posts
    • 48,546 Thanks
    G_M
    You are Sir ... I am sure are ... a member of the Legal Fraternity ... not wanting to loose lucrative earnings.
    Originally posted by TedC
    Once again, you are wrong. I have never been a lawyer, worked within, or for, any law firm, or legal department of any company.

    On the contrary, as I said in my post: "I'm a great believer in DIY conveyancing..... in the right circumstances.".

    I have done my own conveyancing half a dozen times in my life, and each time weigh up the pros & cons, based on the knowledge of conveyancing I've built up, my own assessment of my abilities and limitations, and the particular circumstances of the sale or purchase.

    I've also used solicitors or Legal Executives for conveyances where I've judged it to be wiser.

    When I post here, I do it partly to help others to save money, but also to help them avoid potentially expensive decisions.

    You are, of course, perfectly free to ignore whatever I, or anyone else, posts, but your tirade in post 6 above just makes you appear paranoid, as well as ungrateful.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 17th Jun 17, 7:46 AM
    • 23,562 Posts
    • 89,417 Thanks
    Davesnave
    You are Sir ... I am sure are ... a member of the Legal Fraternity ... not wanting to loose lucrative earnings.
    Originally posted by TedC
    Certainty here seems to be somewhat lacking, yet you are prepared to assert it without evidence. This emotional reaction to GM's post brings into question your ability to view matters in a detached and logical manner.

    Since your typo also appears to have gone unnoticed, perhaps it would be better if you calm-down and consider using a solicitor.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Jun 17, 12:33 PM
    • 41,937 Posts
    • 48,546 Thanks
    G_M
    I noticed the typo but chose to ignore it, though a typo like that in a contract can have significant consequences!
    • TedC
    • By TedC 26th Jun 17, 12:14 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    TedC
    Sorry G_M I could not find the typo error you mention, but observations from the few return posts that I have received from the forum indicate "We have given in to the Propaganda of the Legal Profession" they input nothing to Society and dominate our lives indirectly and overcharge for their advice every chance they get.
    • Sleazy
    • By Sleazy 26th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    • 6,403 Posts
    • 6,205 Thanks
    Sleazy
    Sorry G_M I could not find the typo error you mention, but observations from the few return posts that I have received from the forum indicate "We have given in to the Propaganda of the Legal Profession" they input nothing to Society and dominate our lives indirectly and overcharge for their advice every chance they get.
    Originally posted by TedC
    Loose instead of lose perhaps?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 26th Jun 17, 12:39 PM
    • 41,937 Posts
    • 48,546 Thanks
    G_M
    Sorry G_M I could not find the typo error you mention, but observations from the few return posts that I have received from the forum indicate "We have given in to the Propaganda of the Legal Profession" they input nothing to Society and dominate our lives indirectly and overcharge for their advice every chance they get.
    Originally posted by TedC
    The fact that you could not find the typo, even after being made aware of its existance, is a further indication that drafting or approving legal documents is not for you.

    The last property I sold, I paid around £800 to my solicitor, and around £8000 to an estate agent. The solicitor paid the EA from the sale money. When I received his final account I felt hugely embarrasded that he was getting so little, for doing a skilled job requiring considerable training, yet he'd had to hand over so much to an EA who did relatively little, after minimul training.

    You clearly dislike the legal profession intensely, so I doubt I can change your attitude, but I repeat - whilst I encourage DIY conveyancing in the right circumstances, in this case I advise you have legal help.
    Last edited by G_M; 26-06-2017 at 5:31 PM.
    • missprice
    • By missprice 26th Jun 17, 12:48 PM
    • 3,254 Posts
    • 95,742 Thanks
    missprice
    Sorry G_M I could not find the typo error you mention, but observations from the few return posts that I have received from the forum indicate "We have given in to the Propaganda of the Legal Profession" they input nothing to Society and dominate our lives indirectly and overcharge for their advice every chance they get.
    Originally posted by TedC
    Your typo is loose instead of lose,typos like that in a contract can be a very bad thing. So the fact you couldn't find it even after being told of it means you should not be signing any contracts.

    Re the bolded bit, I have never been overcharged by the legal profession and in fact have had quite a bit of free advice over the years.
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 26th Jun 17, 1:12 PM
    • 6,320 Posts
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    Norman Castle
    Out of interest, how much does conveyancing generally cost on a straightforward property purchase?
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • missprice
    • By missprice 26th Jun 17, 1:32 PM
    • 3,254 Posts
    • 95,742 Thanks
    missprice
    Out of interest, how much does conveyancing generally cost on a straightforward property purchase?
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    I paid £1200 two years ago.
    A friend has just paid £1400.
    But I don't think many purchases are straightforward.
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • missprice
    • By missprice 26th Jun 17, 1:38 PM
    • 3,254 Posts
    • 95,742 Thanks
    missprice
    Under the RTB the seller is the Housing Association (Council) cant buy from anyone else.
    Originally posted by TedC
    I can't quite believe I am saying this, as I am one of the people that has no problems with RTBbut,
    If you don't like the RTB rules on using a solicitor then go find a different place to buy that doesn't involve the council.
    84 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 26th Jun 17, 2:03 PM
    • 6,111 Posts
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    davidmcn
    If you don't like the RTB rules on using a solicitor then go find a different place to buy that doesn't involve the council.
    Originally posted by missprice
    There are no such rules. I'm pretty sure the OP would win a challenge to the HA if it came to that. But path of least resistance will be just to employ a conveyancer rather than litigate.
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