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  • FIRST POST
    • flowerofscotland
    • By flowerofscotland 16th Jun 17, 10:09 AM
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    flowerofscotland
    Buyer claims he received a different item
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:09 AM
    Buyer claims he received a different item 16th Jun 17 at 10:09 AM
    A friend of mine who doesn't have much spare cash decided to sell a smartphone on eBay. He used a tracked service and knows the item was delivered. The payment was held by PayPal "due to the nature of the transaction". The buyer has now opened a dispute and is asking for a refund because he says he received a watch not a phone ! What is anything can my friend do!

    If he does the refund and the item is sent back it won't be the phone he posted And of course as he hasn't actually received the money PayPal can make the refund anyway

    I know from personal experience that eBay believe the buyer if there is any type of dispute but in my case it was only a few pounds so I just put it down to experience and blocked the buyer
Page 1
    • Tealblue
    • By Tealblue 16th Jun 17, 10:20 AM
    • 585 Posts
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    Tealblue
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:20 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:20 AM
    Suggest to your friend that he has the phone blocked so the new owner can't use it - won't get him his money back but will at least ensure the thief doesn't get both the cash and a working phone.
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 16th Jun 17, 10:28 AM
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    ballisticbrian
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:28 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:28 AM
    Find out if your friend has the weight of the item on the receipt from the post office. This can help your case with eBay. Check your friend wasn't also mailing out a watch at the time he was mailing out the phone and got the address labels switched.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 16th Jun 17, 6:09 PM
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    soolin
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:09 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:09 PM
    Find out if your friend has the weight of the item on the receipt from the post office. This can help your case with eBay. Check your friend wasn't also mailing out a watch at the time he was mailing out the phone and got the address labels switched.
    Originally posted by ballisticbrian
    I'm never sure how this helps, how do you know how much packaging someone uses? I sell a certain item, depending on packaging it can weight anything from 440g to a massive 710 g ( I ran out of small boxes !)
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 16th Jun 17, 6:39 PM
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    angryparcel
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:39 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:39 PM
    Also with Royal Mail if the watch is 105g and the phone is 450g they would be in the same postage band

    • flowerofscotland
    • By flowerofscotland 17th Jun 17, 7:32 AM
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    flowerofscotland
    • #6
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:32 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:32 AM
    True but if you mail the parcel at a Post Office they put the actual weight on the receipt. Not sure if this will help or not but it could be another part of the appeal to eBay after the package is returned

    My friend has now blocked the phone though this is unlikely to affect the thief who has probably already sold it on


    Also with Royal Mail if the watch is 105g and the phone is 450g they would be in the same postage band

    Originally posted by angryparcel
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 17th Jun 17, 7:35 AM
    • 10,595 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    • #7
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:35 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:35 AM
    A friend of mine who doesn't have much spare cash decided to sell a smartphone on eBay. He used a tracked service and knows the item was delivered. The payment was held by PayPal "due to the nature of the transaction". The buyer has now opened a dispute and is asking for a refund because he says he received a watch not a phone ! What is anything can my friend do!
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland
    The likelihood is that eBay and Paypal will side with the buyer and ask them to return it to you friend. Your friend will have to pay the returns postage if this was an eBay sale.

    If he does the refund and the item is sent back it won't be the phone he posted And of course as he hasn't actually received the money PayPal can make the refund anyway
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland
    Do NOT refund until the item is returned. As the case is open the funds are held. Is it eBay or a Paypal case?

    I know from personal experience that eBay believe the buyer if there is any type of dispute but in my case it was only a few pounds so I just put it down to experience and blocked the buyer
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland
    Yes, where eBay cannot make a judgement on who is to blame, the easiest for them is to rule in favour of the buyer and the item is returned. However, if your friend does indeed get a watch sent back, he should (or you should) come back here for additional advice.
    • flowerofscotland
    • By flowerofscotland 17th Jun 17, 7:39 AM
    • 2,416 Posts
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    flowerofscotland
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:39 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:39 AM
    I agree but it's just so easy for buyers to perpetrate these scams on eBay. The buyer has photos of the phone (clearly not stock photos), proof of posting and proof of receipt and all the buyer has to do is say they received something different and bingo they have stolen a smartphone with eBay's blessing

    Since this happened to my friend he's been told of countless other examples where genuine private sellers have lost out with not one instance where eBay has believed the seller instead of the buyer

    And if it wasn't so widespread why else would PayPal put a hold on the money "because of the nature of the transaction"?


    I'm never sure how this helps, how do you know how much packaging someone uses? I sell a certain item, depending on packaging it can weight anything from 440g to a massive 710 g ( I ran out of small boxes !)
    Originally posted by soolin
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 17th Jun 17, 7:44 AM
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    theonlywayisup
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:44 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 17, 7:44 AM
    I agree but it's just so easy for buyers to perpetrate these scams on eBay. The buyer has photos of the phone (clearly not stock photos), proof of posting and proof of receipt and all the buyer has to do is say they received something different and bingo they have stolen a smartphone with eBay's blessing

    Since this happened to my friend he's been told of countless other examples where genuine private sellers have lost out with not one instance where eBay has believed the seller instead of the buyer

    And if it wasn't so widespread why else would PayPal put a hold on the money "because of the nature of the transaction"?
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland
    Paypal put holds on sellers' accounts for all sorts of reasons and suddenly selling a phone will be one of them.

    You cannot 100% prevent this type of fraud but you have to see it from Paypal's and the buyers' angles. A seller sells a high risk item for the first time and the buyer claims it is not what it should be....
    • flowerofscotland
    • By flowerofscotland 17th Jun 17, 5:39 PM
    • 2,416 Posts
    • 15,702 Thanks
    flowerofscotland
    Paypal put holds on sellers' accounts for all sorts of reasons and suddenly selling a phone will be one of them.

    You cannot 100% prevent this type of fraud but you have to see it from Paypal's and the buyers' angles. A seller sells a high risk item for the first time and the buyer claims it is not what it should be....
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup

    You are making a number of assumptions here. My friend has been an eBay member for more than 10 years, buying and selling on an ad hoc basis as a private individual - the way eBay started. And also the way they still market themselves The "buyer" has only been with eBay for a few weeks but as a seller you don't know this until the sale is agreed. My friends has sold a phone in the past but it's more than 12 months ago and has also sold a few other items of relatively high value. But his exemplary record built up over a decade counts for nothing

    It seems to me that eBay and PayPal take the easy way out because looking into each case and taking into account the relative standing of each party would take too much resource

    And the PayPal account isn't on hold, just the one transaction - he has been able to use his account because he had a balance before this "sale"

    It's like being mugged in the street and then told it's your fault for taking a walk with a wallet in your pocket
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 17th Jun 17, 6:12 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 388 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    Can you get your friend to obtain from the buyer, photos of :
    The packing, in case that also is different ; and
    The watch, showing any serial numbers ; and tell them to not touch it any more or clean it ?

    Then your friend goes to the police with the details, and asks if it has been reported as stolen.
    ( This also pre-empts the buyer substituting a stolen watch for a phone, and reporting them for theft as well as fraud )

    Your friend could tell the buyer that if the watch has his fingerprints, and it is found to be stolen, he is happy to serve jail time, and pay large compensation.
    • Tealblue
    • By Tealblue 17th Jun 17, 6:31 PM
    • 585 Posts
    • 970 Thanks
    Tealblue
    Can you get your friend to obtain from the buyer, photos of :
    The packing, in case that also is different ; and
    The watch, showing any serial numbers ; and tell them to not touch it any more or clean it ?

    Then your friend goes to the police with the details, and asks if it has been reported as stolen.
    ( This also pre-empts the buyer substituting a stolen watch for a phone, and reporting them for theft as well as fraud )

    Your friend could tell the buyer that if the watch has his fingerprints, and it is found to be stolen, he is happy to serve jail time, and pay large compensation.
    Originally posted by Geoff1963
    The police haven't got the resources to deal with this sort of thing, especially if (as if likely) it's a cheap watch from Argos or similar - and his local police won't have details of watches stolen elsewhere in the country unless they are exceptionally valuable, in which case the buyer wouldn't be complaining!
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 17th Jun 17, 8:25 PM
    • 10,595 Posts
    • 7,113 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    You are making a number of assumptions here. My friend has been an eBay member for more than 10 years, buying and selling on an ad hoc basis as a private individual - the way eBay started. And also the way they still market themselves The "buyer" has only been with eBay for a few weeks but as a seller you don't know this until the sale is agreed. My friends has sold a phone in the past but it's more than 12 months ago and has also sold a few other items of relatively high value. But his exemplary record built up over a decade counts for nothing
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland

    I am not making any assumptions.

    Paypal holds payments for all sorts of reasons and as I said, if your friend has sold a phone and that isn't his regular stock, that would be a flag. The fact he is a private seller is an even bigger flag. Whether he/she was a seasoned seller of crap from their garage is neither here nor there. Unless they have sold phones before, they are likely to be subject to a hold.

    What is the exemplary record you speak of? I don't know of such a thing on Paypal....

    It seems to me that eBay and PayPal take the easy way out because looking into each case and taking into account the relative standing of each party would take too much resource


    And the PayPal account isn't on hold, just the one transaction - he has been able to use his account because he had a balance before this "sale"
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland

    The transaction is what is held, no one ever suggested the account was such.


    It's like being mugged in the street and then told it's your fault for taking a walk with a wallet in your pocket
    Originally posted by flowerofscotland
    No it's nothing of the sort.

    Clearly your friend hasn't acquainted himself with the T&C of the platform he is using.

    But good luck to your friend with the return. I am out.
    Last edited by theonlywayisup; 17-06-2017 at 8:27 PM.
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