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  • FIRST POST
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 16th Jun 17, 3:58 AM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Dakta
    Change in shift hours and loss of allowance
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 17, 3:58 AM
    Change in shift hours and loss of allowance 16th Jun 17 at 3:58 AM
    Hi there, I'm hoping for some advice but I'll try to keep it breif (a lot to get through)

    I work at a steel cutting factory in a drawing/CAD department, and have been employed for around 16 months. I am working currently under a verbal contract. Originally I was on national minimum wage, however at the end of the last year they asked if anyone wanted to trial nightshifts and I agreed, and was given a percentage allowance for the time spent on nights.

    A couple of months ago, they decided this had been succesful and once again was asked if I would go on nights permanently. I agreed as this really fits in with my lifestyle and to be honest I needed the bonus.

    Anyway I thought things were hunky dory, and my confidence and general morale has been on the up but things have gone a bit wrong. I have apparently made a silly error on two technical drawings (I can do between 50 to a hundred each shift) in the last few weeks or so, and there have been a number of errors made by others that I declined to assist covering up (my errors get reported for a non conformance procedure, however I am the only department this applies to and manufacture errors generally go uninvestigated). I was asked to breach policy by removing stock sheets from a database that had been cut due to various mistakes, and I declined to get involved. I feel this may, possibly be partly why the same supervisor has apparently reported me as 'looking tired' on nights. I have not been formally notified of this, just what little I can get from various managers I'm friendly with who were present at the meetings.

    I am not sure if its because of the reasons above which I suspect it is, or something external (we have lost an employee in the last few days from our office) but in effect the powers that be have decided the night shift will still continue, but my drawing department won't be involved and that I'm back on day shifts as of monday. (my last shift of the week was wednesday night to thursday morning).

    I have not had any direct communication from HR, the managing director, but my line manager did attend a meeting where he tried to argue my case for staying on nights and told me the day after during the overlap at the end of my shift. This was not succesful but they did concede slightly and offer a basic pay increase which brings me up to, but not quite, my night shift rate. So I will overall lose.

    As I finished my last nightshift yesterday morning, one of my peers unexpectedly wished me luck for next week. Whilst i was aware I was going to get dragged back onto days, nobody had stated a timeframe and it turns out that everyone is generally aware that I am back on days as of next week, though it was only yesterday afternoon where my line manager confirmed through snapchat that yes, monday I was to come in at the start of the day shift.

    I have made plans for next week, for example I have a meeting with two long distance friends on friday, which I would have to cancel. (big deal I know but its bothered me).

    There has also been talk of me paying back some of my wage as they have already done the monthly wage calculations up to the 21st and have given me a night rate up to that day this month. I don't really argue this point but it all seems very one sided.

    My line manager has tried to be helpfuul and supportive, but admits apart from argue in my favour theres not a lot I can do except quit if I don't like it. He advises I take the offer of a 'payrise' (even though its less than what I currently get) and use the time to search elsewhere whilst at least getting something.

    Anyway, I have a few key things I want advice on.

    1) what are peoples gut feelings about this situation? Am I morally right or wrong to feel aggrieved?

    2) Where shift allowances are concerned, am I technically getting a pay rise or a pay cut from this situation? I'll earn less overall from going back to days, but their interpretation is that I'm getting a payrise as they'll pay me more than I got before per hour, though its less than the night allowance.

    3) Notice periods. The decision appears has been made to get me off nights in the last 2 days, the first day I'll be back on days is this coming Monday. Is this fair and legally reasonable?

    4) Communication. I have had no direct contact with HR or the managing director making these decisions. My line manager attended the meeting and has relayed some of what was discussed to me, but he gave me no time frame. He snap chat messaged me yesterday afternoon after realising nobody had discussed dates and confirming for himself, yet it appears the rest of the workforce were aware as they wished me well at the end of our last shift, before the line manager confirmed with me later that day. The only information I have in formal capacity of the changes is that I'm to attend days on monday, in the form of a snapchat message. Any changes in pay is just from my line managers informal relay of the meeting he attended about it. And as far as I know nothing is concrete, and I certainly can't offer my opinion to anyone as I don't get access to these meetings and nobody except my line manager has asked.

    Despite all this I actually love my job, the rest of the CAD department are great and the night allowance whilst not really much was much needed as I've lost my father recently and I'm sort of propping the rest of the family up at the minute after the loss of him and his business.

    This change for me is quite dire, what do I do? The general consensus seems to be that because I've not been there for two years, very little.

    Thanks for reading, I hope it makes sense though theres so much to it it's impossible to write.

    I'm not really sure what an ideal outcome is either, I haven't been told an official reason for putting me back on days, so i can only assume its because I'm getting up the other peoples noses and people are now getting more flack over their mistakes. If this is the case then it makes nights about as toxic as days as I'll be with the people who are making these reports about me 'looking tired'.
    Last edited by Dakta; 16-06-2017 at 4:08 AM.
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Jun 17, 6:26 AM
    • 4,046 Posts
    • 6,542 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:26 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:26 AM
    Hi there, I'm hoping for some advice but I'll try to keep it breif (a lot to get through)

    I work at a steel cutting factory in a drawing/CAD department, and have been employed for around 16 months. I am working currently under a verbal contract. Originally I was on national minimum wage, however at the end of the last year they asked if anyone wanted to trial nightshifts and I agreed, and was given a percentage allowance for the time spent on nights.

    A couple of months ago, they decided this had been succesful and once again was asked if I would go on nights permanently. I agreed as this really fits in with my lifestyle and to be honest I needed the bonus.

    Anyway I thought things were hunky dory, and my confidence and general morale has been on the up but things have gone a bit wrong. I have apparently made a silly error on two technical drawings (I can do between 50 to a hundred each shift) in the last few weeks or so, and there have been a number of errors made by others that I declined to assist covering up (my errors get reported for a non conformance procedure, however I am the only department this applies to and manufacture errors generally go uninvestigated). I was asked to breach policy by removing stock sheets from a database that had been cut due to various mistakes, and I declined to get involved. I feel this may, possibly be partly why the same supervisor has apparently reported me as 'looking tired' on nights. I have not been formally notified of this, just what little I can get from various managers I'm friendly with who were present at the meetings.

    I am not sure if its because of the reasons above which I suspect it is, or something external (we have lost an employee in the last few days from our office) but in effect the powers that be have decided the night shift will still continue, but my drawing department won't be involved and that I'm back on day shifts as of monday. (my last shift of the week was wednesday night to thursday morning).

    I have not had any direct communication from HR, the managing director, but my line manager did attend a meeting where he tried to argue my case for staying on nights and told me the day after during the overlap at the end of my shift. This was not succesful but they did concede slightly and offer a basic pay increase which brings me up to, but not quite, my night shift rate. So I will overall lose.

    As I finished my last nightshift yesterday morning, one of my peers unexpectedly wished me luck for next week. Whilst i was aware I was going to get dragged back onto days, nobody had stated a timeframe and it turns out that everyone is generally aware that I am back on days as of next week, though it was only yesterday afternoon where my line manager confirmed through snapchat that yes, monday I was to come in at the start of the day shift.

    I have made plans for next week, for example I have a meeting with two long distance friends on friday, which I would have to cancel. (big deal I know but its bothered me).

    There has also been talk of me paying back some of my wage as they have already done the monthly wage calculations up to the 21st and have given me a night rate up to that day this month. I don't really argue this point but it all seems very one sided.

    My line manager has tried to be helpfuul and supportive, but admits apart from argue in my favour theres not a lot I can do except quit if I don't like it. He advises I take the offer of a 'payrise' (even though its less than what I currently get) and use the time to search elsewhere whilst at least getting something.

    Anyway, I have a few key things I want advice on.

    1) what are peoples gut feelings about this situation? Am I morally right or wrong to feel aggrieved?

    2) Where shift allowances are concerned, am I technically getting a pay rise or a pay cut from this situation? I'll earn less overall from going back to days, but their interpretation is that I'm getting a payrise as they'll pay me more than I got before per hour, though its less than the night allowance.

    3) Notice periods. The decision appears has been made to get me off nights in the last 2 days, the first day I'll be back on days is this coming Monday. Is this fair and legally reasonable?

    4) Communication. I have had no direct contact with HR or the managing director making these decisions. My line manager attended the meeting and has relayed some of what was discussed to me, but he gave me no time frame. He snap chat messaged me yesterday afternoon after realising nobody had discussed dates and confirming for himself, yet it appears the rest of the workforce were aware as they wished me well at the end of our last shift, before the line manager confirmed with me later that day. The only information I have in formal capacity of the changes is that I'm to attend days on monday, in the form of a snapchat message. Any changes in pay is just from my line managers informal relay of the meeting he attended about it. And as far as I know nothing is concrete, and I certainly can't offer my opinion to anyone as I don't get access to these meetings and nobody except my line manager has asked.

    Despite all this I actually love my job, the rest of the CAD department are great and the night allowance whilst not really much was much needed as I've lost my father recently and I'm sort of propping the rest of the family up at the minute after the loss of him and his business.

    This change for me is quite dire, what do I do? The general consensus seems to be that because I've not been there for two years, very little.

    Thanks for reading, I hope it makes sense though theres so much to it it's impossible to write.

    I'm not really sure what an ideal outcome is either, I haven't been told an official reason for putting me back on days, so i can only assume its because I'm getting up the other peoples noses and people are now getting more flack over their mistakes. If this is the case then it makes nights about as toxic as days as I'll be with the people who are making these reports about me 'looking tired'.
    Originally posted by Dakta
    1) Morals have nothing at all to do with anything. It's either legally permissible or not. Nobody cares what opinions people hold.

    2) It's moot. But if you get a shift allowance and won't be working that shift any more, then it's a pay rise on basic pay.

    3) Fair is an opinion. See the answer to 1. Legally permissible - if you want to fight back, then technically yes - if you object I think it is reasonable to expect the equivalent of your notice period. On the other hand, if they give you your notice period, they may as well dismiss you for being annoying. They can and they might.

    4) It's all irrelevant right now - they can move you to days anyway. The decision is theirs. So whether they want to discuss it directly with you or not is also their decision.

    Basically, you have been advised correctly. They can dismiss you for almost any reason the like in the first two years, so you dance to their tune or not at all. If you don't like it, you would have to find another job. That said, even with the two years, if an employer wishes to reorganise their business they may do so as they see fit, and you would either have to fall in line with it or leave. Legally, night shifts suiting you is not a reason for an employer to keep you on them. So very little difference would be made by you having the two years.
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 16th Jun 17, 6:33 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Dakta
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:33 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Jun 17, 6:33 AM
    1) Morals have nothing at all to do with anything.
    I was asking for opinion, so it matters. (I'm not implying it carries legal weight) but it was part of my question for my own reference. It matters because I'm normally quite passive so i don't know at what stage I should consider enough to be enough, so personal opinion completely aside of formalities is something I'm interested in.

    As for the rest I assumed that to be the case, I know you get very little protection within the first two years. I just didn't want to base my opinion making on assumption as I have been given quite a lot of conflicting advice.

    I am not a fan of big upheavals but it does look like one is necessary.
    Last edited by Dakta; 16-06-2017 at 6:44 AM.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 16th Jun 17, 3:08 PM
    • 9,912 Posts
    • 7,982 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 3:08 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jun 17, 3:08 PM
    Feeling aggrieved has nothing to do with morals, it is a state of mind. Some people will feel aggrieved about a specific workplace experience or change whereas others will shrug it off.

    Having worked for many years in a job where most grades had a range of duties, I got used to short notice change and wised up to accepting the change with "yes, OK, no problem" or similar, or even, very crawling "Ooo, that sounds interesting, I'll look forward to that".

    Unless you are exceptionally talented and can easily walk into another job, it pays not to rock the boat.
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 16th Jun 17, 4:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Dakta
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:26 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:26 PM
    I respect my own feelings so unfortunately it does factor in, and if an employer asks you to do a certain shift permanently and then changes it without telling you, and instead all you get is a filtered through social media message about it (incidentally rather than intentionally) then I do feel a bit off put about it.

    This may be at odds with other people, but that's just me. I did ask for the opinion though so I do appreciate you getting back to me.

    I think, my definition of reasonable may differ to others. Maybe I'm comparing my experiences too much to how I treat people from the other side of the desk.

    I am not particularly worried about finding another job, it's not easy in this climate but without being arrogant I do have skills in a variety of fields - losing this role would be a last resort but its perfectly viable, and if it leads to eventually having a role that pays the same or even a shade less but without the instability of not being able to plan my own personal time and actually discuss changes with a manager then might be a net gain all things considered.
    Last edited by Dakta; 16-06-2017 at 4:35 PM.
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 16th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Dakta
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    Just to add to this, that I have taken some more formal advice and the situation for me doesn't seem to be as hopeless as 'suck it up' advice so far has demonstrated. Don't get me wrong its not a right lot, but it does make me feel at least I will have a voice in this. Which frankly is worth more to me than the job.

    I do thank you for your time though in responding.
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