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  • FIRST POST
    • jmroberts314
    • By jmroberts314 15th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    • 8Posts
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    jmroberts314
    What speed limit applies to me?
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    What speed limit applies to me? 15th Jun 17 at 6:05 PM
    Hi All,

    Wonder if anyone can help. I recently (hired, but that doesn't matter), a Ford Tourneo vehicle, which has 9 seats (8 passenger, 1 driver). I have been sent a Notice of Intended Prosecution for driving at 68mph in a 70mph zone. Does anyone know if the lower speed limit (60) applies to this vehicle? I was under the impression that 8 passenger seats plus a driver = car speed limits?

    Thanks!
Page 2
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 15th Jun 17, 10:44 PM
    • 1,056 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    There used to be a loophole in taxi regulations, such that 8 passenger seats was neither a car nor a minibus ; and that's why a lot of stretch limos were made with 8 passenger seats.

    The notice says 68. Were you actually going a little faster, as shown on your speedometer ; and was it maybe showing over 70 ?
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 15th Jun 17, 10:47 PM
    • 730 Posts
    • 558 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    There used to be a loophole in taxi regulations, such that 8 passenger seats was neither a car nor a minibus ; and that's why a lot of stretch limos were made with 8 passenger seats.

    The notice says 68. Were you actually going a little faster, as shown on your speedometer ; and was it maybe showing over 70 ?
    Originally posted by Geoff1963
    No, he was doing 68 that's why the notice says 68. The over read on the speedo has nothing to do with it.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Jun 17, 9:02 AM
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    NBLondon
    Thought... The vehicle was hired (stated in first post). So would/should the hire paperwork have specified whether this classed as a minibus or not? If it did but the OP didn't realise, the OP is stuck with it. If it doesn't - does the OP have any comeback on the hire co.? (Probably not an actual defence though).
    This Be the Verse - Philip Larkin. The first line that everyone knows.
    • jmroberts314
    • By jmroberts314 16th Jun 17, 10:10 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    jmroberts314
    Thanks to all for their responses & help...sounds like it's a little bit of a grey area!

    However, I went to the hire company today who showed me the v5 - it is listed as an MPV Diesel Car.

    Therefore it should be the 70mph limit that applies to me on a dual carriageway, not 60mph?
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 16th Jun 17, 10:12 AM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 594 Thanks
    Rover Driver
    Thought... The vehicle was hired (stated in first post). So would/should the hire paperwork have specified whether this classed as a minibus or not? If it did but the OP didn't realise, the OP is stuck with it. If it doesn't - does the OP have any comeback on the hire co.? (Probably not an actual defence though).
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    8 passenger seats + driver is not a minibus. A Tourneo is a passenger vehicle similar to, and sometimes confused with, a Transit van, which is subject to the lower speed limits, that the Tourneo is not.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 16th Jun 17, 10:46 AM
    • 13,076 Posts
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    Gloomendoom
    Thanks to all for their responses & help...sounds like it's a little bit of a grey area!

    However, I went to the hire company today who showed me the v5 - it is listed as an MPV Diesel Car.

    Therefore it should be the 70mph limit that applies to me on a dual carriageway, not 60mph?
    Originally posted by jmroberts314
    Did you get a copy of the V5?
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • jmroberts314
    • By jmroberts314 16th Jun 17, 10:50 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    jmroberts314
    Yes, well I have pictures of it now after visiting the hire centre. I'm led to believe I have to return the form regardless saying I was driving, wait to see what course of action they want to take, and that's what I can challenge / appeal it?
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Jun 17, 12:16 PM
    • 1,433 Posts
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    NBLondon
    8 passenger seats + driver is not a minibus. A Tourneo is a passenger vehicle similar to, and sometimes confused with, a Transit van, which is subject to the lower speed limits, that the Tourneo is not.
    Originally posted by Rover Driver
    An answer to my question - this is not.


    However, if the OP now has some evidence that the exact vehicle in which the alleged offence was committed is not subject to the limits applied, he should have grounds to appeal. If it was a ticket generated after a camera caught the alleged offence, I would have thought that it would be checked against the V5 before it was issued. So maybe the issuer is lax - was it a police force, or a Safety Partnership (or whatever else they may be called)?
    This Be the Verse - Philip Larkin. The first line that everyone knows.
    • jmroberts314
    • By jmroberts314 16th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    jmroberts314
    An answer to my question - this is not.


    However, if the OP now has some evidence that the exact vehicle in which the alleged offence was committed is not subject to the limits applied, he should have grounds to appeal. If it was a ticket generated after a camera caught the alleged offence, I would have thought that it would be checked against the V5 before it was issued. So maybe the issuer is lax - was it a police force, or a Safety Partnership (or whatever else they may be called)?
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    It was a Go Safe van that "caught me". Yes the V5 specifically states that the vehicle is a "diesel car" so I reckon I have grounds for appeal. i've sent the driver information back and will wait to see what they offer...
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 16th Jun 17, 1:00 PM
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    Rover Driver
    It just needs a letter, with a copy of the V5C, attached to their form, pointing out that the vehicle is a car, and not subject to the lower speed limits.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 16th Jun 17, 1:09 PM
    • 10,229 Posts
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    neilmcl
    It just needs a letter, with a copy of the V5C, attached to their form, pointing out that the vehicle is a car, and not subject to the lower speed limits.
    Originally posted by Rover Driver
    ^This. Send the copy of the V5 along with a covering letter disputing the offence attached to the form.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 16th Jun 17, 6:43 PM
    • 1,069 Posts
    • 853 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Back to the original post. You say 68 in a 70mph zone. The only roads marked as 70mph are motorways, so you are talking about a road with national speed limit. So perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree.

    Was the road a dual carriageway i.e. was there a division between the oncoming traffic and yourself.

    It's probably worth a Google map link to the site you think you got caught.

    Remember cars are limited to 60mph on unrestricted single carriageways.
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 16th Jun 17, 7:11 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 594 Thanks
    Rover Driver
    Yes the V5 specifically states that the vehicle is a "diesel car" so I reckon I have grounds for appeal. i've sent the driver information back and will wait to see what they offer...
    Originally posted by jmroberts314
    If they have your letter and copy of the V5C, they should take no further action if the offence is exceeding the speed limit for a goods vehicle. If they don't, (or that is not the offence), the usual process is an offer of a speed awareness course or a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points) - which may mean a magistrate's court case to appeal it.
    Last edited by Rover Driver; 16-06-2017 at 7:13 PM.
    • doningtonphil
    • By doningtonphil 16th Jun 17, 10:44 PM
    • 284 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    doningtonphil
    Back to the original post. You say 68 in a 70mph zone. The only roads marked as 70mph are motorways, so you are talking about a road with national speed limit. So perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree.

    Was the road a dual carriageway i.e. was there a division between the oncoming traffic and yourself.

    It's probably worth a Google map link to the site you think you got caught.

    Remember cars are limited to 60mph on unrestricted single carriageways.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    I think this is a very valid question for the OP from IanMSpencer. I live ner the A75 to Gretna-Stranraer. It is single carriage way with numerous 'crawler lanes' up hills, where the carriageway becomes two lanes but with NO division from the oncoming carriageway. No end of people put their foot down- most likely assuming it is a 'Dual Carriageway'. Surprise surprise, the top of the hill is the speed camera van's favoutire parking spot.

    So OP, can you confirm which road you were on and if there was a physical barrier between the two carriageways. Also, if it was a 'proper' dual carraigeway, that there weren't '60' signs at certain intervals?
    • jmroberts314
    • By jmroberts314 22nd Jun 17, 9:24 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    jmroberts314
    I think this is a very valid question for the OP from IanMSpencer. I live ner the A75 to Gretna-Stranraer. It is single carriage way with numerous 'crawler lanes' up hills, where the carriageway becomes two lanes but with NO division from the oncoming carriageway. No end of people put their foot down- most likely assuming it is a 'Dual Carriageway'. Surprise surprise, the top of the hill is the speed camera van's favoutire parking spot.

    So OP, can you confirm which road you were on and if there was a physical barrier between the two carriageways. Also, if it was a 'proper' dual carraigeway, that there weren't '60' signs at certain intervals?
    Originally posted by doningtonphil
    It's a very valid point. I drive the road in question very regularly, and have also double checked Google Maps / Earth to be 200% sure. It is a dual carriageway, with a physical barrier between oncoming traffic. Also, there is no crawler lane on the section of road, it changes from a 50 to a 70 (national speed limit signs), about a mile back from where I was caught. I have a copy of the v5 and have sent that, along with a letter pointing out it's classified as a car. Fingers crossed....
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 26th Jun 17, 2:57 PM
    • 26,030 Posts
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    forgotmyname
    Wont be the first time they got the vehicle class wrong.

    One of the 7.5 ton drivers got done for exceeding 40mph on an A road, (predates the new rules). Thinking it had changed to a 40mph stretch and they didnt notice they went on the same route to check and no 40mph zones. The company had to send off the vehicles details and copies of the paperwork showing it was a 7.5ton vehicle and not heavier.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • jmroberts314
    • By jmroberts314 30th Jun 17, 9:53 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    jmroberts314
    Update:

    A few days ago I sent a scan of the v5, with a letter pointing out it's classified as a car, attached to my driver details form. Yesterday I received a letter from the police apologising for the inconvenience, and confirming no further action will be taken and the matter is now closed.

    Result!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 30th Jun 17, 10:07 AM
    • 15,438 Posts
    • 13,764 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Update:

    A few days ago I sent a scan of the v5, with a letter pointing out it's classified as a car, attached to my driver details form. Yesterday I received a letter from the police apologising for the inconvenience, and confirming no further action will be taken and the matter is now closed.

    Result!
    Originally posted by jmroberts314
    Which is exactly what should happen.

    The operator in the camera van saw what looks like a Transit, and triggered the camera on that basis. The fact that this particular vehicle isn't, and isn't subject to the same limits as the vast majority of cosmetically very similar vehicles, is a relatively minor detail. Perhaps it should have been picked up before the s172 was sent out... but it was dealt with (correctly, and quickly) at the first opportunity thereafter.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 30th Jun 17, 11:01 AM
    • 10,229 Posts
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    neilmcl
    Which is exactly what should happen.

    The operator in the camera van saw what looks like a Transit, and triggered the camera on that basis. The fact that this particular vehicle isn't, and isn't subject to the same limits as the vast majority of cosmetically very similar vehicles, is a relatively minor detail. Perhaps it should have been picked up before the s172 was sent out... but it was dealt with (correctly, and quickly) at the first opportunity thereafter.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    It begs the question whether they would've "picked up" the error had the OP not sent the latter and the copy of the V5. I suspect not.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 30th Jun 17, 11:07 AM
    • 15,438 Posts
    • 13,764 Thanks
    AdrianC
    It begs the question whether they would've "picked up" the error had the OP not sent the latter and the copy of the V5. I suspect not.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    If the OP admitted they were guilty of the alleged offence, you mean, instead of pointing out that no offence had been committed?
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