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    • tawecdl
    • By tawecdl 15th Jun 17, 2:45 PM
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    tawecdl
    Different Pay Grade - Same job Title.
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:45 PM
    Different Pay Grade - Same job Title. 15th Jun 17 at 2:45 PM
    Hey Everybody.

    Just out of interest, if somebody was to start employment with a company and was given for example £20,000 per year contract for a job where there are only 2 positions within the company (one of which is already filled), and then a month or so into their employment discovers that their colleague doing exactly the same job is on for example £30,000 plus £4,200 vehicle allowance. Is there anything the employee can do?

    Literally exactly the same job roles and responsibilities...

    Thanks in advance

Page 2
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 16th Jun 17, 2:31 PM
    • 5,760 Posts
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    bugslet
    Yes it does and no I don't regret asking!

    I suspect that part of any gap is simply that women are more likely to take time out to raise children than men and they either lose out on a promotion whilst they are off, they maybe take a few years out and they aren't as up to date, they've lost contacts. Work that doesn't have career progression as such, (cleaning, driving jobs), probably doesn't suffer such a big gap????


    I know the theory is that paternity leave is there to encourage men to take time off as well/instead of, but I'm guessing biologically and possibly financially, women are the more likely to stay at home.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Jun 17, 5:08 PM
    • 4,175 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    sangie595
    Yes it does and no I don't regret asking!

    I suspect that part of any gap is simply that women are more likely to take time out to raise children than men and they either lose out on a promotion whilst they are off, they maybe take a few years out and they aren't as up to date, they've lost contacts. Work that doesn't have career progression as such, (cleaning, driving jobs), probably doesn't suffer such a big gap????


    I know the theory is that paternity leave is there to encourage men to take time off as well/instead of, but I'm guessing biologically and possibly financially, women are the more likely to stay at home.
    Originally posted by bugslet
    The fact that women lose out as a result of doing a socially essential task called child rearing (after all, society needs the next generation of workers, and they are either raised by parents or by expensive services) is definitely part of the gender gap. Again, this doesn't have to be - women have to give birth but men could pack in work to rear them - but it is, and as a result this is a low value occupation. Paternity leave isn't the same thing. Women may have to give birth, but the subsequent years of care, school, etc., are not biologically determined. Either parent could do it. The parent who is better off usually stays in work. Since that is usually the man, the gender gap remains in place - it feeds itself. It is most significantly the social role of child rearing and the low value it is placed in that result in a great deal of the inequality and the gender gap. For women, career or children are too often still a choice, but it is never a choice for a man - men not only get both, they are deemed to be more responsible if they have both. But women who work are seen too often as neglectful.

    Paternity leave is to child rearing what "helping with the housework" is to equal partners. When do you ever hear it said that women help with the housework? No, men help with the housework, because they are being good enough to help the woman out with something that is her role - housework!
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 16th Jun 17, 6:13 PM
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    bugslet
    Looking at my very narrow ie haulage, view of the world, I can only think of one of my truck drivers, and I suspect van drivers, whose wife earns more than he does. My lot earn 40k+, their wives are cleaners, retail, basic admin. None of them are going to say, let's live on my 20k pay and give up the 40k!



    On the other hand, women very rarely want to end up in trucking, no reason why they couldnt earn that kind of money, but most don't want to be away from home, they think it requires strength which most driving jobs no longer do, or they think it's too big for them to handle. Sometimes they can be their own worst enemy.
    • CKhalvashi
    • By CKhalvashi 16th Jun 17, 6:39 PM
    • 8,791 Posts
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    CKhalvashi
    The whole gender pay gap thing sails over my head, but i am curious.

    When we talk about gender pay gap, are we talking about specific jobs, be they cleaning or accounting jobs, paid differently as regards gender; or are we talking lifetime earnings in an occupation?

    Given that it's illegal to pay people differently for the same work ( excluding a difference for experience), I am confused.

    I have one woman driver and she's paid the same hourly amount as the men, it wouldn't occur to me that she could be paid less.
    Originally posted by bugslet
    I think the only difference in payment would realistically be when some are on a new contract and others are on old contracts.

    If you're on an existing contract of £120 a day and the new ones are £90 a day (for example), there's nothing illegal in that. In that scenario, it's likely there would be no pay rise until it caught up to the £120 a day mark on the new ones.
    "I kada sanjamo san, nek bude hiljadu raznih boja" (L. Stamenkovic)

    Call me Remainer or Romaniac, but not Remoaner. It's insulting and I have the right to have my voice heard too.

    I can spell, my iPad can't.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 16th Jun 17, 8:34 PM
    • 4,942 Posts
    • 6,173 Thanks
    theoretica
    Looking at my very narrow ie haulage, view of the world, I can only think of one of my truck drivers, and I suspect van drivers, whose wife earns more than he does. My lot earn 40k+, their wives are cleaners, retail, basic admin. None of them are going to say, let's live on my 20k pay and give up the 40k!

    On the other hand, women very rarely want to end up in trucking, no reason why they couldnt earn that kind of money, but most don't want to be away from home, they think it requires strength which most driving jobs no longer do, or they think it's too big for them to handle. Sometimes they can be their own worst enemy.
    Originally posted by bugslet
    Some jobs pay more because they have unpleasant aspects (such as a trucker being away from home) and responsibility (driving safely). But part of the gender gap is that the jobs which are more often done by men pay more than the jobs done more often by women. Like the obvious example of the responsible and sometimes unpleasant nursing or midwifery - dealing with body fluids and people's lives. So there are two aspects to this - one is which jobs are men and women applying for, but the other is why do some jobs pay more than others? And is it really fair to blame women for being their own worst enemy for not applying for the traditionally male jobs?
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 16th Jun 17, 8:47 PM
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    bugslet
    I wouldn't say I was blaming, just commenting that they reject jobs that pay more that they can do. Women form 1% of truck drivers. Though thinking about it, why not blame them. We have equality, if you want to earn more money, go for the better paying jobs and then maybe they won't be traditionally male.

    I haven't a clue about midwifery and how hours and pay stacks up, I'm not sure how anyone would go about it. FWIW I think HGV drivers are underpaid, and I say that as an employer *shoots self in foot*
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Jun 17, 9:02 PM
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    sangie595
    I wouldn't say I was blaming, just commenting that they reject jobs that pay more that they can do. Women form 1% of truck drivers. Though thinking about it, why not blame them. We have equality, if you want to earn more money, go for the better paying jobs and then maybe they won't be traditionally male.

    I haven't a clue about midwifery and how hours and pay stacks up, I'm not sure how anyone would go about it. FWIW I think HGV drivers are underpaid, and I say that as an employer *shoots self in foot*
    Originally posted by bugslet
    I actually agree. If you ignore "brainwashing". We live in a society that is bound by gender based roles. Women "care". Caring isn't valuable... Back in the olden times... c. 1960 + there used to be debates about what the wage would be if you paid women for what they do for nothing. Scary figures! Women are convinced by gender roles that don't appreciate them; men by gender roles that don't free them. Both genders buy into a reality that doesn't actually help them as people.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 16th Jun 17, 10:29 PM
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    theoretica
    Blaming wasn't quite the right word - putting more of the burden of change on women would perhaps be a better way of phrasing it. As Sangie points out the status quo isn't as good as it could be for men either. I know men who have found it difficult to go into nursing and caring careers, or wanted to and decided against it for financial reasons.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Jun 17, 11:08 PM
    • 4,175 Posts
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    sangie595
    These are old figures ...

    Interim calculations by the (UK) ONS reveal that just household clothing and laundry services were worth £97.2billion in 2012, the equivalent of 5.9 per cent of GDP Unpaid childcare was worth £343billion in 2010, which is worth about three times the contribution of the financial services industry.

    The (US)!Bureau of Economic Analysis!reported unpaid work at home would have boosted U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) – the value of all goods and services produced in a country – by 26 percent in 2010. The U.S. GDP was $14,660 billion in 2010. So, about $3,812 billion or $3.81 trillion is the value of unpaid work in the home. That’s slightly less than Japan’s 2015 GDP ($4,123 billion) and slightly more than Germany’s ($3,358 billion).
    • asajj
    • By asajj 16th Jun 17, 11:45 PM
    • 4,166 Posts
    • 10,601 Thanks
    asajj
    I wouldn't say I was blaming, just commenting that they reject jobs that pay more that they can do. Women form 1% of truck drivers. Though thinking about it, why not blame them. We have equality, if you want to earn more money, go for the better paying jobs and then maybe they won't be traditionally male.
    Originally posted by bugslet
    But there is also sometimes an entry barrier to certain professions. i.e. all lads club don't want a woman coming and working with them. So it is not only about going and getting a job that pays more.
    £2015 in 2015 / £2015

    No buying unnecessary stuff.
    Clearing out by selling on Ebay, donating to charity etc.
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