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    • Conrad
    • By Conrad 15th Jun 17, 1:50 PM
    • 31,260Posts
    • 54,206Thanks
    Conrad
    Landlords - safety inspections?
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:50 PM
    Landlords - safety inspections? 15th Jun 17 at 1:50 PM
    I've been reading LL's should inspect quarterly, seems OTT to me.


    Would annual be sufficient? This is to check - off risks such as those posed by floor coverings, electrics, windows etc. (Gas check is done by a qualified gas engineer annually btw)


    Advice is that LL's carry out their own inspection regards electrical safety, with emphasis on how many appliances are plugged into any one socket / block adaptor / extension lead.


    BUT.......... how do I as a layman know whether the load is too much on a standard 13 A socket? I know one can add up the Amp rating of each appliance, but this seems like I would be opening myself to problems were a fire to occur and the limit was breached


    I will from now on have a more detailed safety guide signed by Tenants, and I plan to do my own annual inspections in addition to the one done every five yrs by an Electrician

    Any thoughts welcome
    Will European citizens take kindly to bloated Brussels elites harming their livelihoods with barriers to their UK trade? 9% of Dutch exports come to the UK....
Page 1
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 15th Jun 17, 2:28 PM
    • 4,545 Posts
    • 3,922 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:28 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:28 PM
    I've been reading LL's should inspect quarterly, seems OTT to me.
    Originally posted by Conrad
    link? there is lots of "advice" on the internet
    - some lists the legal requirements
    - some thinks it lists legal requirements
    - some is well intentioned, but off the mark
    - some is nonsense

    Would annual be sufficient? This is to check - off risks such as those posed by floor coverings, electrics, windows etc. (Gas check MUST BE is done by a qualified gas engineer annually btw)
    Originally posted by Conrad
    are you assessing risks or are you making an inspection for other purposes?

    the frequency of the review phase of the risk assessment is reactive to the nature of the risk - see page 20 Appendix II
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/housing-health-and-safety-rating-system-guidance-for-landlords-and-property-related-professionals

    Advice is that LL's carry out their own inspection regards electrical safety, with emphasis on how many appliances are plugged into any one socket / block adaptor / extension lead.

    BUT.......... how do I as a layman know whether the load is too much on a standard 13 A socket? I know one can add up the Amp rating of each appliance, but this seems like I would be opening myself to problems were a fire to occur and the limit was breached

    I will from now on have a more detailed safety guide signed by Tenants, and I plan to do my own annual inspections in addition to the one done every five yrs by an Electrician

    Any thoughts welcome
    Originally posted by Conrad
    whose advice?

    whilst it is excellent that you are taking your responsibilities so seriously, do be sure to differentiate between legal requirements (annual gas safety inspection) and inspections which are not legal requirements, but are precursors to you meeting other requirements. For example, the ability to evidence legal duty of care requirements are met by being able to show that a periodic electrical inspection (not a legal requirement - unless an HMO) has been performed.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 15th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • 14,627 Posts
    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    Electrical safety checks are only required in northern Ireland I believe.


    Otherwise it's sensible to do one every so often and yes generally that's accepted to be every 5 years.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 15th Jun 17, 2:59 PM
    • 8,831 Posts
    • 11,668 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:59 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:59 PM
    Electrical safety checks are only required in northern Ireland I believe..
    Originally posted by Guest101
    And Scotland (EICR & PaT). And for HMOs E&W.

    If you do a "safety check" (which, afaik, a tenant does not have to allow you to do... see below **) make sure you record it (written, electronic) and file it in case things go bad...

    ** LL&T Act 1985 s11(6) has this...
    www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/11
    (6) In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.
    " their condition and state of repair" is not quite the same as "safety inspection"... (your pedantic correspondent writes..)
    • Conrad
    • By Conrad 15th Jun 17, 4:02 PM
    • 31,260 Posts
    • 54,206 Thanks
    Conrad
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 4:02 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 4:02 PM
    link? there is lots of "advice" on the internet
    - some lists the legal requirements
    - some thinks it lists legal requirements
    - some is well intentioned, but off the mark
    - some is nonsense

    are you assessing risks or are you making an inspection for other purposes?

    the frequency of the review phase of the risk assessment is reactive to the nature of the risk - see page 20 Appendix II
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/housing-health-and-safety-rating-system-guidance-for-landlords-and-property-related-professionals

    whose advice?

    whilst it is excellent that you are taking your responsibilities so seriously, do be sure to differentiate between legal requirements (annual gas safety inspection) and inspections which are not legal requirements, but are precursors to you meeting other requirements. For example, the ability to evidence legal duty of care requirements are met by being able to show that a periodic electrical inspection (not a legal requirement - unless an HMO) has been performed.
    Originally posted by 00ec25



    Agree with all this BUT, the point being made (I don't have the link to hand, just stuff I've been reading, I think one source was Landlord zone?) is that in the age of ambulance chasing no win no fee lawyers it's just wise to try and be as water tight as possible.


    I don't want to run the risk of a fire and be told I had not taken enough personal responsibility to check overloaded sockets etc. I will do an annual inspection to augment the 5 yearly electrical check by an Electrician and the annual gas check


    I will merely make notes of potential risk and ask the Tenant to make adjustments (for example not using multi sockets or too many appliances on a socket) unless I feel there is some specific action needs doing myself. Have just ordered fire blankets and extinguishers to - mind you this then leads into potential extinguisher inspections, lol. I will test the smoke alarms etc.


    Decided not to do the Legionnaires inspection, lol. I have though added a clause to my AST stating taps etc should be kept clean especially after a period of absence (let the water run a while), but I don't specifically mention Legionnaires.


    I recognise Tenants have their own responsibilities, but as I say it wont hurt to show I have a written record of annual inspection.
    Last edited by Conrad; 15-06-2017 at 4:06 PM.
    Will European citizens take kindly to bloated Brussels elites harming their livelihoods with barriers to their UK trade? 9% of Dutch exports come to the UK....
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 16th Jun 17, 12:46 AM
    • 4,545 Posts
    • 3,922 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:46 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:46 AM
    Decided not to do the Legionnaires inspection, lol. I have though added a clause to my AST stating taps etc should be kept clean especially after a period of absence (let the water run a while), but I don't specifically mention Legionnaires.
    Originally posted by Conrad
    oh boy, you sure know how to pick what you worry about

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/legionella-landlords-responsibilities.htm
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 16th Jun 17, 10:06 AM
    • 14,627 Posts
    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:06 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 10:06 AM
    Agree with all this BUT, the point being made (I don't have the link to hand, just stuff I've been reading, I think one source was Landlord zone?) is that in the age of ambulance chasing no win no fee lawyers it's just wise to try and be as water tight as possible. - Well sure, but you doing an inspection wouldn't stop that unless you are a qualified electrician, gas engineer etc. Doesn't mean they'd win though, as this typically requires negligence.


    I don't want to run the risk of a fire and be told I had not taken enough personal responsibility to check overloaded sockets etc. I will do an annual inspection to augment the 5 yearly electrical check by an Electrician and the annual gas check - Do you know anything about electrics thou?


    I will merely make notes of potential risk and ask the Tenant to make adjustments (for example not using multi sockets or too many appliances on a socket) - you cant do that. Well you can ask, but that wouldn't come down on you and you couldn't demand it. unless I feel there is some specific action needs doing myself. Have just ordered fire blankets and extinguishers to - mind you this then leads into potential extinguisher inspections, lol. I will test the smoke alarms etc. - Yes you should do extinguisher tests, we have them in my rented house. The chap comes round after a quick call, checks them and goes. takes 10 minutes, nice guy, united fan.


    Decided not to do the Legionnaires inspection, lol. - lol? the one check you really really should be doing, aside form gas safety..... I have though added a clause to my AST stating taps etc should be kept clean especially after a period of absence (let the water run a while), but I don't specifically mention Legionnaires. - And how will that help your case?


    I recognise Tenants have their own responsibilities, but as I say it wont hurt to show I have a written record of annual inspection.
    Originally posted by Conrad

    The inspection process is two way. the tenants are there to remind you of what needs doing too.
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