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  • FIRST POST
    • helpplease2017
    • By helpplease2017 15th Jun 17, 12:17 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    helpplease2017
    CCJ Claim form for stature barred debt
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:17 PM
    CCJ Claim form for stature barred debt 15th Jun 17 at 12:17 PM
    Dear all,

    Thank you in advance for any advice you can give. I am posting this on behalf of my younger brother as I can see there are a lot of knowledgeable folk on here.

    In a nutshell he defaulted on a credit card in early 2011. It was with **** who then sold the debt to ******.

    They have now contracted a solicitor to take this further and late last week a CCJ claim form arrived.

    The card in question defaulted with a balance of £*** and with court fees etc it is now over £***.

    We have since looked at his record on Experian, Noddle and Clear Score and this account does not even show any more. Not even as closed. Which was actually a worry as he couldn't remember exact dates of when he stopped paying, when accounts defaulted etc.

    However, we then got a break when he logged on to creditreport.co.uk. It wanted £15 to provide an updated report but, as he had used them previously, it let him see his last report from 2013.

    There was his old defaulted account!

    It shows it defaulted in early 2011. They then show it being set up as new account with ***** who then show no repayment details on the monthly payment charge until 2012 when a D suddenly appears. This again caused concern as we were worried they have somehow been able to re-set the date of default on the debt. However on the left hand information column the original default date in early 2011 is showing.

    Reading up on the Limitations Act and statute barring of debt it appears there should be no case to answer but are we missing something?

    Can the purchaser of the debt somehow re-set the date of default? There has been no payments or contact from my brother to them.

    Is this a standard tactic ie hope folk just panic and pay? Or a genuine error?

    My concern is that it must cost them a few hundred pounds to start this process so why would they if they thought they would lose?

    We are also worried that if we contest it and do lose then is the CCJ just registered or do you then have time to settle the claim? He's back working after several years out but in a fairly low level job at a bank. If this got out he'd almost certainly lose his job!

    Sorry for the rabble. Happy to answer any questions and thanks again if you can offer any clear direction in how best to proceed.

    Cheers
    Last edited by helpplease2017; 16-06-2017 at 8:06 AM.
Page 1
  • National Debtline
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    Hi there and welcome to MSE,


    So, the first thing to clarify is that he must reply to the claim forms. He has 19days from the issue date to reply, but if he does the acknowledgement of service form within these 19days then he will have a further 14days to file his defence. Unfortunately, creditors do chance their luck with these claims, as not everyone will defend or even reply and therefore, they can recoup some / all of the debt.


    The Limitations Act may be able to be used to defend this, but please be aware that the default date has no bearing on when the 6 year clock starts. The 6 year clock begins from when the last payment was due and missed, when the last written acknowledgement was made or when the last payment was made - whichever is the later. We have a factsheet about this that may help - https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/time-limits-for-recovering-debts/statute-barred-debt.aspx


    It may also be worth getting some legal advice about this, because if his defence fails for any reason the creditor could secure the judgement. He would then have 1 month to pay it in full to prevent it being recorded on his credit file. Or, if it gets this far, he may be able to ask the creditor to consider a Tomlin Order rather than going for the full CCJ. (A Tomlin Order is a court order that sets out repayments, but is not recorded on your credit file, as long as you maintain the payments. If you default on the payments, then it will be recorded as a CCJ).


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    • 11,972 Posts
    • 11,453 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    Hi,

    Debts are bought and sold all the time, no checks are ever made on the enforceability of them, unless the debtor asks for proof.

    So these companies don't know if they have bought an enforceable debt or not.
    The same applies to debts that are statute barred.

    The default date is irrelevant, the Limitations clock starts running from the date of his last payment or acknowledgement in writing.

    So if any period of 6 years have passsed since last acknowledgement, he should defend the claim based on the fact it's statute barred.

    The time for negotiations is now, once a CCJ is awarded, its there for 6 years unless you either pay it off within one calendar month, or apply for a successful set aside.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • helpplease2017
    • By helpplease2017 15th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    helpplease2017
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    Thank you both for your reply.

    I've since removed this post as I suddenly realised that employees of these types of firms may well look in on here and there was far too much personal information in this and the original post that would make my brother fairly easy to find.
    Last edited by helpplease2017; 16-06-2017 at 7:50 AM.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Jun 17, 1:41 PM
    • 11,972 Posts
    • 11,453 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:41 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:41 PM
    Are you in Scotland by any chance ?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • helpplease2017
    • By helpplease2017 15th Jun 17, 2:29 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    helpplease2017
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:29 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:29 PM
    No in England. What made you think that?
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Jun 17, 2:35 PM
    • 11,972 Posts
    • 11,453 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:35 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:35 PM
    No in England. What made you think that?
    Originally posted by helpplease2017
    Nothing, only asking as the Limitations period in Scotland is only 5 years.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
  • National Debtline
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:48 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:48 PM
    Hello again,


    Unfortunately, if payments were made through a debt management company in July 2011 the limitation clock may not have started until August 2011 (as that was when the last payment was due and missed), so if they have sent claim forms now, the limitations act won't apply I am afraid.


    If there is no other dispute that he can raise then he would need to do the Admission form within 19days of the issue date, complete the budget and make an offer to repay. If this is accepted and he maintains the payments then the creditor would not be able to enforce the debt. Your brother would still need to complete the relevant form, but can include a letter proposing the Tomlin Order to prevent the CCJ being registered and stress to the creditor that a CCJ on his credit file could affect his employment. Your brother may need some legal advice regarding this.


    He may have other options to deal with his debts as well, such as Debt Relief Order to get them written off. However, he needs to carefully check the terms of his employment, because if a CCJ could risk him losing his job, insolvency is unlikely to be much better.


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • helpplease2017
    • By helpplease2017 15th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    helpplease2017
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    Thanks again Laura.
    Last edited by helpplease2017; 16-06-2017 at 8:09 AM.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Jun 17, 3:38 PM
    • 11,972 Posts
    • 11,453 Thanks
    sourcrates
    It would be removed if he paid within 30 days of judgement yes.

    After 6 years the credit file entry will vanish, regardless of what happens.

    If a CCJ is granted, that would show for a further 6 years in the "public info" section of his file.

    If you intend to help your brother settle this, then there is no harm in defending the claim as been statute barred and hope they don't have any info to the contrary (which could well be the case).

    You have nothing to lose by calling there bluff.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 15-06-2017 at 3:42 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • helpplease2017
    • By helpplease2017 15th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    helpplease2017
    Thanks sourcrates

    I am thinking that might be worth a shot.


    I was thinking he could ask for the 14 day extension and then go to court if required

    Anyone know how long the court date normally takes once we've put his defence forward?
    Last edited by helpplease2017; 16-06-2017 at 7:58 AM.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 15th Jun 17, 6:12 PM
    • 11,234 Posts
    • 8,400 Thanks
    fatbelly
    I would definitely have a go at defending this as statute barred, plus chucking anything else you can find at it

    If you go over to

    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?105-Received-a-Court-Claim

    there are resources and folk to help you.

    You can see the likely timescales by looking at some of the threads over there. How long to a hearing? maybe 3-4 months.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Jun 17, 7:05 PM
    • 11,972 Posts
    • 11,453 Thanks
    sourcrates
    You would be amazed how inept some of these debt buyers actually are, and how little information they may hold on the debts history.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 16-06-2017 at 9:00 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 15th Jun 17, 7:47 PM
    • 11,234 Posts
    • 8,400 Thanks
    fatbelly
    You would be amazed how inept some of these debt buyers actually are, and how little information they may hold on the debts history.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    This is true
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