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    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 15th Jun 17, 12:05 PM
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    harshitguptaiitr
    FTB - HomeBuyer Report Findings - Gas and Electricity
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:05 PM
    FTB - HomeBuyer Report Findings - Gas and Electricity 15th Jun 17 at 12:05 PM
    I have received my homebuyer report with following 2 major findings

    Electricity
    The meter is in the outside meter box. The consumer unit can be found in the hallway. The consumer unit contains older type wire fuses to protect users should there be a defect with the installation. Where visible, the installation has been wired in a mixture of older type plastic covered cable. We do not know if there is a current test certificate for the electrical installation. There is no up-to-date test certificate for the electrical installation. The electrical installation is dated and in disrepair. The meter is an old unit. The consumer unit contains no modern cut-off devices. The light fittings in the property are of some age and may well be defective. This could lead to a fire and damage to the property. This is a risk to the building and to persons.

    Gas
    Natural gas is connected and the meter and stopcock are located in an outside meter box. The gas supply was on during the inspection. We do not know of any service agreement or current test certificate for the gas installation. This could lead to ill health and damage to the property. This is a risk to the building and to persons. The installation appears in fair order with no significant defects evident. However, as much is hidden from view and as such systems require specialist knowledge, we are unable to advise on its serviceability or safety.
    How much should I read into these comments:
    • RICS surveyer has listed some findings to cover themselves
    • The findings should be corrected by the seller due to safety regulations.
    • If I chose to proceed, then I should be prepared to pay money for repairs and safety due to these findings.
    • Something else...

    I will really appreciate your advice and guidance please....
Page 1
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 15th Jun 17, 12:12 PM
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    ReadingTim
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:12 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:12 PM
    Very little.

    Unless it was built literally yesterday, it won't meet modern standards. Doesn't mean it's dangerous, any more than an E type Jag is dangerous and worthless just because it doesn't have airbags. Therefore, unless it's a new build property, this is standard @rse covering.

    Yes, things may be defective, and could lead to damage. In the same way that one's eyesight or hearing may be defective, and this could lead to being hit by a bus...
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 15th Jun 17, 12:17 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:17 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:17 PM
    How old is the house?

    The gas sounds fine, just not modern standards.

    If the wiring etc. is clearly very old and you were planning to do DIY/redecorating anyway then it might be a good time for a rewire. It's messy but not super expensive.
    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 15th Jun 17, 12:24 PM
    • 56 Posts
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    harshitguptaiitr
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:24 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:24 PM
    Thanks for the prompt replies

    How old is the house?
    Approximately 42 years old.

    If the wiring etc. is clearly very old and you were planning to do DIY/redecorating anyway then it might be a good time for a rewire
    I wasn't planning to do any redecorating as I am satisfied/happy with the way it was when viewed.

    Interestingly, I had asked following 2 questions to the estate agent and their answers in red

    1 - When was the property last re-wired?
    MEB checked 4 years ago

    2 - • Are the gas and electrical safety check certificate available? When was these checks last done? Yes
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 15th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    A 42 year old house with its original wiring is heading to the age where it could do with a rewire, but in the meantime you could get a new consumer unit perhaps and put up with it for a good few years until you're ready to redecorate or are doing other jobs at the same time.

    I've no idea what MEB check means, but if you want to know exactly what's going on and how safe it is today you'll need to pay for your own inspection.
    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 15th Jun 17, 1:05 PM
    • 56 Posts
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    harshitguptaiitr
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:05 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:05 PM
    Thanks for the reply!

    Could I possibly ask the vendor to drop the price by £2000 to account for the maintenance/rewiring required due to electrical safety concerns raised in the HomeBuyer report?

    My feeling is NO because I suspect the vendor might simply walk away for this request...
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jun 17, 1:08 PM
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:08 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:08 PM
    I would look to upgrade the consumer unit from the old fuse wire type to a modern type with trip switches. It sounds like you may need to re-wire as well, but the best way to tell is to pay an electrician for an electrical report.

    The gas gives no indication of any issues, but if you are concerned, pay a GasSafe engineer for a report. Or just go round with a CO alarm. Place it next to the boiler and then do some basic checks yourself. Turn the heating on/off up/down - does the boiler switch on/off appropriately? Do the radiators heat up? Does hot water come out of the taps?

    And did the alarm go off while doing any of this?

    The findings should be corrected by the seller due to safety regulations.
    If I chose to proceed, then I should be prepared to pay money for repairs and safety due to these findings.
    The seller does not have to do anything, but you could use the electrical findings here (or better still the report from an electrician) to try renegotiating price. Seller may or may not agree
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 15th Jun 17, 1:10 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:10 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:10 PM
    Thanks for the reply!

    Could I possibly ask the vendor to drop the price by £2000 to account for the maintenance/rewiring required due to electrical safety concerns raised in the HomeBuyer report?

    My feeling is NO because I suspect the vendor might simply walk away for this request...
    Originally posted by harshitguptaiitr
    No, not really, because if you go to view a 42 year old house and it still has seventies style light switches and plug sockets, you should know it will have old electrics and be factoring that in to your offer if it's an important factor.
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 15th Jun 17, 1:22 PM
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    DumbMuscle
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    Thanks for the reply!

    Could I possibly ask the vendor to drop the price by £2000 to account for the maintenance/rewiring required due to electrical safety concerns raised in the HomeBuyer report?

    My feeling is NO because I suspect the vendor might simply walk away for this request...
    Originally posted by harshitguptaiitr
    What was the surveyor's valuation of the property? That will have taken into account any work required (i.e. the surveyor thinks it's worth that despite the faults identified). If the valuation matches the offer price, you don't have much leverage to negotiate
    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 15th Jun 17, 1:35 PM
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    harshitguptaiitr
    Thanks again for valuable insights.

    What was the surveyor's valuation of the property?
    Same as the offer price. The reinstatement cost was higher though probably because of cost of materials and labor cost over the years.

    The property had an integrated microwave and cooker. Can I assume this work was done post 2005 and hence there will be some electrical installation certificates available?
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 15th Jun 17, 1:47 PM
    • 196 Posts
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    DumbMuscle
    Thanks again for valuable insights.


    Same as the offer price. The reinstatement cost was higher though probably because of cost of materials and labor cost over the years.

    The property had an integrated microwave and cooker. Can I assume this work was done post 2005 and hence there will be some electrical installation certificates available?
    Originally posted by harshitguptaiitr
    Ask the sellers when they were installed? Or try to get a model number, which will give you a reasonable estimate. There's no particular reason to think they're under a decade old AFAIK. (My parents have an integrated cooker which was there when they bought the property in 2006, and has run with no problems since, so it's quite possible for it to be older than that).

    In any case, all that will tell you is that the cooker/microwave was probably installed properly - the wiring between there and the outside world could have literally anything wrong with it.
    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 1st Jul 17, 9:11 PM
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    harshitguptaiitr
    Sorry - posting on an old thread.

    Is it a reasonable request to ask seller to provide Electrical Installation Condition Report to justify that comments in Homebuyer report are just !!!! covering...

    Also when is a good time to initiate such discussions? After vendor solicitor has issued the contract pack or before that? Before getting a mortgage offer or after that?

    My viewpoint is that before vendor's solicitor has done any work, seller could easily walk away without losing a penny.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 1st Jul 17, 9:58 PM
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    G_M
    Is it a reasonable request to ask seller to provide Electrical Installation Condition Report to justify that comments in Homebuyer report are just !!!! coverng...
    You can ask for anything you like!

    But if I were the seller I'd respond that I'm happy to permit access for your electrician to come in and inspect.

    Also when is a good time to initiate such discussions? After vendor solicitor has issued the contract pack or before that? Before getting a mortgage offer or after that?
    Why wait? You serious about buying or just wasting time?

    My viewpoint is that before vendor's solicitor has done any work, seller could easily walk away without losing a penny.
    Originally posted by harshitguptaiitr
    and the seller's viewpoint is tht before the buyer has done all his inspections he could just walk away........
    • G_M
    • By G_M 1st Jul 17, 10:04 PM
    • 41,079 Posts
    • 47,195 Thanks
    G_M
    Is it a reasonable request to ask seller to provide Electrical Installation Condition Report to justify that comments in Homebuyer report are just !!!! coverng...
    You can ask for anything you like!

    But if I were the seller I'd respond that I'm happy to permit access for your electrician to come in and inspect.

    Also when is a good time to initiate such discussions? After vendor solicitor has issued the contract pack or before that? Before getting a mortgage offer or after that?
    Why wait? You serious about buying or just wasting time?

    My viewpoint is that before vendor's solicitor has done any work, seller could easily walk away without losing a penny.
    Originally posted by harshitguptaiitr
    and the seller's viewpoint is tht before the buyer has done all his inspections he could just walk away........
    • societys child
    • By societys child 1st Jul 17, 10:21 PM
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    societys child
    You want everything up to the latest specs, buy a new build, even then it may not be perfect.

    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 31st Jul 17, 3:39 PM
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    harshitguptaiitr
    I paid for the Electrical Installation Conditions Report and the report conclusion was UNSATISFACTORY.

    There was no C1 findings, but one C2 finding and I would like to get some advice please on how much would this cost:

    Installation of RCD protection on all final circuits
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 31st Jul 17, 4:05 PM
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    DoaM
    A new consumer unit will have an MCB for each circuit, and an overall RCD protecting the whole system. Plus a main isolator. Depending on the system, there may be separate RCDs (e.g. 1 for upstairs, 1 for downstairs).

    Example: http://www.sg-electrics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Modern-Consumer-Unit.jpg
    Last edited by DoaM; 31-07-2017 at 4:07 PM.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 31st Jul 17, 4:07 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 331 Thanks
    ProDave
    I paid for the Electrical Installation Conditions Report and the report conclusion was UNSATISFACTORY.

    There was no C1 findings, but one C2 finding and I would like to get some advice please on how much would this cost:
    Originally posted by harshitguptaiitr
    Your electrician is WRONG.

    Asking doe rcd's on ALL circuits just to give it a satisfactory condition is plain wrong. It is possible (though I admit unusual) to still install new circuits now without an rcd and comply with current regs.

    I would agree now things like sockets and showers should have an rcd but there is certainly no need to upgrade say lighting circuits. you only need to update such a circuit to rcd protection if you are making alterations to that circuit.

    Now it may well be the only way to get rcd's on some circuits is to replace the consumer unit, so if doing that you might as well update all circuits, but his point that ALL need an rcd in order to be classed as satisfactory is simply WRONG.
    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 16th Aug 17, 9:59 AM
    • 56 Posts
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    harshitguptaiitr
    Update on situation on this thread for electrical safety issue on homebuyer Report and on Electrical installation condition report:

    I have got a quotation from a different electrician to make the property for safe "electrically".

    I have been quoted 420 for replacing the existing fuse wire type distribution unit with a
    new metal clad 17th edition distribution unit incorporating RCD protection and for providing a part P certificate

    I am a bit concerned because I was under impression that changing distribution unit will also require rewiring which an electrician should have quoted for and should easily see in an unfurnished property. Or maybe I am wrong here.

    Is there any other certificate required when such a work is being done? So that I don't get caught out at a later stage...
    • harshitguptaiitr
    • By harshitguptaiitr 16th Aug 17, 11:13 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    harshitguptaiitr
    I have been quoted £420 for replacing the existing fuse wire type distribution unit with a
    new metal clad 17th edition distribution unit incorporating RCD protection and for providing a part P certificate

    I am a bit concerned because I was under impression that changing distribution unit will also require rewiring which an electrician should have quoted for and should easily see in an unfurnished property. Or maybe I am wrong here.

    Is there any other certificate required when such a work is being done? So that I don't get caught out at a later stage...

    One more question please - should the vendor pay for this work or is this something I will have to pay for?
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