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  • FIRST POST
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 11:55 AM
    • 10Posts
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    football_striker
    Minster baywatch parking fine
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:55 AM
    Minster baywatch parking fine 15th Jun 17 at 11:55 AM
    Hello,

    I'm new to this forum and wondered if somebody could help me out. I've read various other threads and got myself this far but now I'm stuck.

    Basically, there was a wedding at Brecon Cathedral on May 20th. The driver paid £1 at the parking meter for an hour thinking that this was sufficient enough. They thought this was a manned car park, and had no idea they were using ANPR. Other guests said they'd just paid a pound and that's why the driver thought it was ok. The wedding was late to run and took much longer than usual.

    A few days later I received a letter in the post from Minster Baywatch showing my car coming and going from the car park. The time stamp is below the photo of my car but not on the photo itself. The driver overstayed by an extra 40 minutes and now they're trying to make me pay a £100 fine reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days. The driver would also like to add that it was only 50p more for 2 hours, so I really can't justify paying a £60 fine for this!! Plus, the driver couldn't just get up and leave the wedding ceremony half-way through and say I've got to go and increase my parking fee. It was assumed that there would have been a ticket in the windscreen if the driver had gone over anyway. The parking sticker was put in the windscreen from the meter.

    I have followed the appeal process through Baywatch and not told them who the driver was. I used the BPA template and they have declined my appeal and offered me a POPLA code. But I'm not sure what to do next? I have got a friend who lives in Brecon to take a photo of the parking sign with all the t&c's on it but I'm not sure if I can argue anything against it, like the fact it's got small wording on it etc?

    I'd really appreciate any help to try and get this damn ticket cancelled!

    Many thanks
    Last edited by football_striker; 15-06-2017 at 12:42 PM.
Page 1
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 11:57 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:57 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:57 AM
    As a new user, apparently I'm not allowed to post links? How can I post a link to my tweet which has the photo of the car park sign?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 17, 12:01 PM
    • 32,115 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:01 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:01 PM
    You say you never told them who was driving but your op now does.

    Edit it to remove details of who was driving

    Host your pics on an image hosting site. Put up the URL with hxxp and someone will post a live link

    See the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum to learn about a popla appeal


    Put together a draft appeal and post it up for comments
    Last edited by Quentin; 15-06-2017 at 12:49 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
    • 13,620 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
    Please use some paragraphing in your first post - and any subsequent ones - to break up the wall of text.

    Many regulars, including me, won't struggle to try to read such posts because the mass of words makes it too difficult to read, thereby you will potentially miss out on valuable advice.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 12:36 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:36 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:36 PM
    Sorry, what do you mean my op now shows who was driving? What should I edit my post to?
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 12:39 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:39 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:39 PM
    LINK TO PHOTO OF CAR PARK SIGN: hxxps://ibb.co/h0VE3Q

    Obviously replace hxxps with https
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 17, 12:45 PM
    • 32,115 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:45 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:45 PM
    Sorry, what do you mean my op now shows who was driving? What should I edit my post to?
    Originally posted by football_striker
    To remove references to who the driver was!


    Use "the driver" did this and that etc
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 17, 12:46 PM
    • 32,115 Posts
    • 16,203 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:46 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:46 PM
    LINK TO PHOTO OF CAR PARK SIGN: hxxps://ibb.co/h0VE3Q

    Obviously replace hxxps with https
    Originally posted by football_striker
    https://ibb.co/h0VE3Q
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Jun 17, 2:18 PM
    • 13,620 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:18 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:18 PM
    Couple of points to bear in mind as you work on your appeal to POPLA.

    1. The car park operator is shown as Bransby Wilson, not MinsterBaywatch. BW and MB are partner organisations but your purported contract is with BW not MB who have issued the ticket. So you must argue the point that you have no contract with MB.

    2. Watch out, eventually, for the POPLA evidence pack and the witness statement regarding the landowner contract and who it's signed by. Often signed by BW themselves as landowner.

    They do lease (or even own) a car park near to York Minster (their base is close to it, I think) but you need to start digging now as to who actually owns the Brecon car park - Land Registry for £3-£4 will tell you if after, free Google searches, calls to the Local Valuation Office, Local Council, or even the tea room mentioned on the sign, you can't find the details.

    Thank you, by the way, for paragraphing out your original post.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 2:51 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    Thank you very much for those two points. Surely the contract is void if MB have given me the fine when as you pointed out, it should have come from BW?

    Also, I've done some digging. It appears that the land owner is the cathedral, the church of Wales. I've spoken to the Cathedral office and she said she would query this parking ticket with the Dean when he's back in next week. Maybe it might get cancelled, I'm sure the Dean could authorise this, otherwise are you suggesting that if BW were to sign it off as "their land", that too is illegal and incorrect?

    No worries and thanks for your help so far!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Jun 17, 2:57 PM
    • 13,620 Posts
    • 21,360 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done in contacting the cathedral.

    Doing your homework now (get some written proof if possible) is a good investment of time should BW claim they own the land, via a witness statement (which we've seen in the past), then you can rebut that at the evidence pack stage with POPLA. This should secure you a slam dunk win. But all in due course.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 7:39 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    How and who should I get written proof from? The Dean? Thanks, hopefully that works providing that BW sign it off as their land.

    Do you have any recommendations of what I should put in for my appeal to Popla if I decide to do it next week? The example ones I've seen on here are like written essays, they're so long, I wouldn't know where to start.

    Many thanks
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 17, 7:43 PM
    • 32,115 Posts
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    Quentin
    Resign yourself to writing your own essay of similar length!
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 15th Jun 17, 8:03 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    From scratch? Are there not template ones I can use?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 17, 8:13 PM
    • 32,115 Posts
    • 16,203 Thanks
    Quentin
    No templates as such.

    The newbies FAQ thread has lots of advice on preparing a popla appeal.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 17, 8:39 PM
    • 48,285 Posts
    • 61,765 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    From scratch? Are there not template ones I can use?
    Originally posted by football_striker
    Errrrm...yes, in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, where the POPLA template points are.

    We give you the bricks, you just build the wall.

    It is easy, most people say, when they have found the templates. No link, I never link to the NEWBIES thread but my signature says where it is (two clicks away).
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 7th Jul 17, 6:41 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    I've finally had a response from MB and they've sent a very long reply. Although most of it is my original appeal, their own responses are quite short, only a few lines long. In order to gain some advice, would it help if I posted the PDF document on here for people to see?

    After skim reading, I've noticed that they have said no payment was made during the duration of time my car was in the car park. They've attached records of all the people that paid for parking on that very day and they state that "these records clearly show that no payment was made for vehicle registration......." But the driver did pay for an hour, and it actually shows my registration plate clearly on their records in the evidence section of their response. So they're trying to mislead POPLA with their evidence.

    Also, their scans of the licence agreement with the cathedral is in such poor quality, it's so blurry, I can barely read it properly. It is in date but they've blacked out the signatures at the end of the contract, so Joe Bloggs could have signed this off surely??? It's all very suspicious!!!

    There are also some photographs they've taken of the signs from within the car park which are a fair distance away from where I parked (they're at the entrance of the car park) and they're not the ones which I read, the one I read next to the parking meter doesn't state anything about ANPR and is clearly too small to read. Additionally, they've added in some bright yellow parking signs in their evidence which show the fine in massive red letters but there is no location on them and they definitely aren't taken from this car park, so again they're trying to mislead POPLA!!! I have got a photograph of the whole car park which clearly shows these yellow signs don't exist.

    I'd be extremely grateful if someone could give me some advice/guidance on how to respond to them. I've got 7 days from now. I will of course send it as a PDF to POPLA because they don't allow you much of a word count!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Jul 17, 6:46 PM
    • 14,786 Posts
    • 18,597 Thanks
    Redx
    search the forum for POPLA REBUTTAL and base your rebuttal draft on ones sent to popla by other members in the last 6 months (no matter who the PPC is)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • football_striker
    • By football_striker 7th Jul 17, 6:51 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    football_striker
    Thanks. I will do! But do you think any of my above points have any grounds?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    • 14,786 Posts
    • 18,597 Thanks
    Redx
    I didnt read them , but "who knows"

    this whole system has no baselines and anything goes

    the point of a rebuttal is not to reiterate the initial popla appeal, its to go through their points and try to dismantle them one by one , pointing out any errors or omissions or whatever that you were not party to prior to putting in your popla appeal

    they saw your appeal, they went through it and put in their evidence and trying to rubbish your appeal , its now your chance to rubbish their published evidence they gave to popla , so go through it and do so , point by point

    you seem to have done this, so construct a rebuttal based on what you have said and done above, plus anything else too

    if you dont ask , you dont get , so do it anyway , they can only say no

    this is like a tennis match at winbledon , serve , return . return , return , verdict
    Last edited by Redx; 07-07-2017 at 7:02 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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