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  • FIRST POST
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 8:36 AM
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    Ken68
    Property
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 8:36 AM
    Property 15th Jun 17 at 8:36 AM
    My brother died recently and his main property was left in a bit of a state. It will probably have to be sold "as is" without electric certificate and in need of major repairs. Top value with house in good order would be £250k. It has enough land for another house to be built and therefore of interest to developers.
    I am one of the main beneficiaries ( not an executor) and concerned that the house will be sold off 'under the counter'.
    There is history of another of his properties not being advertised and sold off at half top price.
    Advice needed please, early days, tempted to not rock the boat but can see £100k, maybe £200k slipping away.
    Thanks for letting me share.
Page 1
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 15th Jun 17, 9:18 AM
    • 3,446 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 9:18 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 9:18 AM
    Who is the executor?
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 9:44 AM
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    Ken68
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 9:44 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 9:44 AM
    Another family member (does it matter !!), who advised near dementia brother on the other house being sold off at (as I see it) half price £125k.
    No advertising of the property and using a single preferred estate agent.
    This was two years ago and the property recently changed hands (after renovation.... at £300k.)
    The same estate agent is being used to sell off all remaining properties.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 15th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
    if the other sale was carried out so that care fees could be paid then it does not seem unreasonable to go for a quick sale. The fact that it has been sold for more than double the price 2 years later after renovation does not mean it was sold at half its value, as you have no idea what the cost of those renovations were, and frankly most people don't want to buy run down properties, so others often get them for a bargain price.

    You could always tell the executor that you would like to take your share of the property and buy out the other beneficiaries. That way you should be given a valuation before it is sold.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 11:05 AM
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    Ken68
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:05 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:05 AM
    Thanks KP....the estate will probably be about £1m. The other house was in a prime location and renovations would have been £20 to £50k .
    The four main beneficiaries are late 70's and early/late 80's.and not in the best health for any hassle.
    At the moment all amicable so I will probably tread water and see what happens.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 15th Jun 17, 11:13 AM
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    Mojisola
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:13 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:13 AM
    Another family member (does it matter !!)
    Originally posted by Ken68
    It could have if the executor was a solicitor because then you'd have a complaints procedure to follow.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 15th Jun 17, 11:19 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:19 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:19 AM
    Thanks KP....the estate will probably be about £1m. The other house was in a prime location and renovations would have been £20 to £50k .
    The four main beneficiaries are late 70's and early/late 80's.and not in the best health for any hassle.
    At the moment all amicable so I will probably tread water and see what happens.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Well into IHT territory then, so a proper valuation will be required. I would suggest to the executor that they get a RICS surveyor to value it not an estate agent, as a professional valuation is less likely to receive a challenge from HMRC.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 11:41 AM
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    Ken68
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:41 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:41 AM
    Thanks both.
    The need for a RICS surveyor valuation would be just the opening I need to talk to the executor about selling through the most agents.
    Do Estate Agents charge if they don't make the final sale ?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Jun 17, 11:42 AM
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    Malthusian
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:42 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:42 AM
    The other house was in a prime location and renovations would have been £20 to £50k .
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Plus two years' worth of labour. Plus a risk premium for the possibility that there were more issues lurking under the floorboards and when the buyer tried to renovate it collapsed around their ears. And a quick sale was required by the seller so demand was limited. I can't see anything suspicious in what you've posted. If it was that much of a bargain you should have offered to buy it for £150k, hired some builders and made a tidy profit.

    If it was availability of funds that was stopping you then that's no problem this time as if the executor tries to sell it for £125k you can offer to take the property in lieu of £150k worth of your inheritance. The beneficiaries get a larger share of the other assets, you get a house you know you can flip for a quick profit, everybody wins.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Jun 17, 11:48 AM
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    Malthusian
    Do Estate Agents charge if they don't make the final sale ?
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Generally estate agents work on a percentage of the final sale cost so you wouldn't pay them if they didn't find the buyer. If you enter into a sole agency agreement the percentage is lower.

    As the market for dilapidated houses is limited, you can hire 100 estate agents but they will all be chasing the same few buyers, so they might be reluctant to operate on a multiple agency basis.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 12:13 PM
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    Ken68
    Thanks Malth...also the house is in a small town so more chance of collusion.
    The other house was sold before I and the rest of the family knew it was available. Sold to a builder. Brother was rambling towards the end so have to discount his comments that he thought he had been done over.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jun 17, 1:44 PM
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    getmore4less
    If you really believe it is worth more take I as your share and sell it yourself.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 2:19 PM
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    Ken68
    If you really believe it is worth more take I as your share and sell it yourself.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    At 81, don't want the worry of property or shares, and I have money of my own so not desperate. Just concerned that I (and lesser beneficiaries) are not done over.

    Have just been told that the cost of selling of his shares will be £40 per holding, yet I can buy or sell my own for £5.95.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th Jun 17, 3:16 PM
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    Malthusian
    Have just been told that the cost of selling of his shares will be £40 per holding, yet I can buy or sell my own for £5.95.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Not surprising. I know of at least one broker that charges £40 per trade for selling shares if you don't use their online system (which the executor is probably unable to do). The fact that you use a different broker is neither here nor there. The executor is not obliged to spend weeks transferring the shares in-specie to a different broker for the sake of a few hundred quid in dealing costs.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 15th Jun 17, 4:52 PM
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    Ken68
    Not sure of all the duties of an executor,other than to get the best price and that they represent all the beneficiaries.
    I see your point about the shares , death certificates and identities would be needed to do the transfer.
    How would an executor PROVE that the best value was obtained if solely contracted to one Estate Agent ?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 16th Jun 17, 9:31 AM
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    Malthusian
    How would an executor PROVE that the best value was obtained if solely contracted to one Estate Agent ?
    Originally posted by Ken68
    They don't need to. If you are going to sue them for not giving you your fair share, the onus is on you to prove the estate agent could have sold it for more and voluntarily did themselves out of a bigger commission for some reason. Or that the executor should reasonably have known the sale price was too low.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 16th Jun 17, 12:23 PM
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    Ken68
    In the case of a challenging property,the estate agents can make more in commission from a builder or developer plus what they get from the seller.
    In fact I think that is how my brother bought the property originally, a tip off from Lloyds bank. Straight offer below value, bank happy, seller cleared his debt , brother got something cheap.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
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    getmore4less
    At 81, don't want the worry of property or shares, and I have money of my own so not desperate. Just concerned that I (and lesser beneficiaries) are not done over.

    Have just been told that the cost of selling of his shares will be £40 per holding, yet I can buy or sell my own for £5.95.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Is that just to sell or a DOD valuation and sale?

    you could do the valuations yourself to help out.

    They should be transferable at min/zero cost to your nominee platform so you could take on the sale side if it can be done cheaper.
    you then have to decide how the timing of sale risk will be carried.


    If really concerned about the house sale make it public and go auction, then take the hit on the fees.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 16th Jun 17, 5:47 PM
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    Ken68
    I think banks and such are happier dealing with a solicitor and have been outvoted on the auction route.
    Have mentioned RICS valuation. Main property will soon be empty, tempted to put in a bid but don't think I have the energy and spirit to renovate.
    Already winding down my own affairs as mentioned in a thread by Sea Shell.
    Thanks for the help will let you know what happens (six months!!)
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