Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • bukko
    • By bukko 15th Jun 17, 6:34 AM
    • 126Posts
    • 33Thanks
    bukko
    Debit card protection abroad
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:34 AM
    Debit card protection abroad 15th Jun 17 at 6:34 AM
    Hi,

    we are in UAE and my son thinks he may have been scammed.
    Is there any debit card protection if used in UAE?

    Thanks

    (sorry if this is the wrong forum)
Page 1
    • Edi81
    • By Edi81 15th Jun 17, 6:43 AM
    • 240 Posts
    • 130 Thanks
    Edi81
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:43 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:43 AM
    There is something called chargeback - I'm sure someone more knowledgable may be along with more information.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 15th Jun 17, 6:54 AM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 848 Thanks
    Ben8282
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:54 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:54 AM
    Could you be more specific as to the exact nature of the problem?
    • bukko
    • By bukko 15th Jun 17, 7:21 AM
    • 126 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    bukko
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 7:21 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Jun 17, 7:21 AM
    Basically we were taken by our tour company to a diamond merchant. This wasn't a paid excursion, I think they just take all their tours there at some point.
    (They also took us to a leather seller afterwards and that definitely felt like a scam so we just waited outside for an hour).
    After our rep told us she would get us a good price and spoken in Turkish to the sellers my son ordered a ring from them for his wife.
    Checking online afterwards, the price is way too high, and the company has 100% bad reviews on TripAdvisor, saying you don't get what you order etc (and not being diamond experts, how would we know anyway?).
    The ring has not been delivered yet so I guess technically the contract is not complete, unfortunately it seems to be in Russian and we don't know the law here.
    We don't know how best to proceed now.

    [More info]
    There are a few options we have thought of:
    1. Four of us were witnesses when they said they guaranteed that a valuation in the UK would show at least double the value that we were paying; we took that as part of our contract
    2. The purchase would not have been made without the involvement, encouragement and incentivisation of the tour company so we hold them jointly responsible and will speak to their rep (when he appears)
    3. The ring has not yet been delivered so the contract is not complete. If it is not delivered or they do not deliver what was ordered that should be a clear case for chargeback (if that works in UAE). To be honest, I don't think this will happen though.

    We could really use some advice...
    Last edited by bukko; 15-06-2017 at 8:20 AM.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Jun 17, 11:55 AM
    • 4,990 Posts
    • 4,725 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:55 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 17, 11:55 AM
    If it is not delivered or they do not deliver what was ordered that should be a clear case for chargeback
    Originally posted by bukko
    Chargeback should indeed protect you if undelivered or if you can prove that it's not compliant with the contract, but it won't help you with the issue of whether the ring was overpriced or not.

    I suspect that your best bet will indeed be to lean on the rep(s) to try to sort this out, rather than relying on a card provider who I fear are unlikely to be in a position to help....
    • phillw
    • By phillw 15th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    • 611 Posts
    • 270 Thanks
    phillw
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    1. Four of us were witnesses when they said they guaranteed that a valuation in the UK would show at least double the value that we were paying; we took that as part of our contract
    Originally posted by bukko
    Did you get that in writing?

    You will need to get a valuation when it arrives, but then the bickering will start. I think it's absolutely outrageous that unrelated tours stop off at these places, they know that people are ripped off and only do it for the kickbacks. I was taken on a tour of a jewelry factory in Turkey. We spent about 20 seconds in the workshop and then 20 minutes in the showroom. They picked out the marks and ushered them into separate rooms. So I understand how easy it is to get suckered in.

    I don't know what bank you are with, but lloyds have a process for debit cards. You will need to check with your bank whether they have a similar process, but it's not worth doing anything until it doesn't arrive or it arrives in an unfit state. They may say that transactions outside of the UK are not covered.

    http://www.lloydsbank.com/help-guidance/customer-support/debit-card-disputes.asp

    "I expected a better quality of goods. What can I do?

    If you are unhappy with the quality of goods or services you have received and have been unable to resolve the issue with the company directly, we may be able to raise a dispute against the company for the amount paid.

    Before we can raise a dispute, you must have tried to resolve the issue with the company. You must have also returned or attempted to return the goods to the company. When returning goods we suggest you use a method which will track the goods as we will need proof of the return.

    When you contact us we will need to know the date and the amount of the payment that was taken from your account and the name of the company it was paid to. We will also need to know the following to progress the claim:

    A full explanation of what was not as described and detailed information regarding the quality of the goods or service.
    The date you received the goods or services.
    The date you returned the goods or cancelled the services. Please include the location of the goods, the name of the shipping company and the tracking number if available.
    If it has not been possible to return the goods or cancel the service please supply information relating to how you attempted to return the goods or cancel the services and the response from the company.
    Once we receive the documentation, we will be happy to review this for you. We recommend that you only send in photocopies of receipts and invoices."
    Last edited by phillw; 15-06-2017 at 12:54 PM.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Jun 17, 12:48 PM
    • 4,990 Posts
    • 4,725 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:48 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:48 PM
    1. Four of us were witnesses when they said they guaranteed that a valuation in the UK would show at least double the value that we were paying; we took that as part of our contract
    Originally posted by bukko
    Did you get that in writing?
    Originally posted by phillw
    Presumably a rhetorical question - if it was included in writing there wouldn't be any need to mention witnesses to what was said!
    • meer53
    • By meer53 15th Jun 17, 2:43 PM
    • 8,772 Posts
    • 12,736 Thanks
    meer53
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:43 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 2:43 PM
    You need to get proof in writing of what you agreed to buy. If what you receive doesn't match this, your bank can attempt a chargeback for goods not as described. Without proof you won't have a leg to stand on.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 15th Jun 17, 6:32 PM
    • 23,821 Posts
    • 11,028 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:32 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 6:32 PM
    Just thinking aloud here - but if I had some goods worth double the value over here than over there why would I share them with anybody else?

    Unless of course I was conning people!"
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Jun 17, 7:03 PM
    • 4,990 Posts
    • 4,725 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Just thinking aloud here - but if I had some goods worth double the value over here than over there why would I share them with anybody else?

    Unless of course I was conning people!"
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    I think the valuation issue is something of a moot point anyway (no card provider is going to underwrite their customers paying over the odds), but there are many legitimate examples of goods being valued significantly differently between countries, such as technology products being much cheaper in the USA than here, or alcohol being much more expensive in, say, Scandinavia (for a variety of tax/duty/competition/market/legal reasons), so I don't think that the 'bargain' valuation necessarily signifies any wrongdoing.... Is a half-price sale at a retailer here automatically suspicious?
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 15th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    • 23,821 Posts
    • 11,028 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    I think the valuation issue is something of a moot point anyway (no card provider is going to underwrite their customers paying over the odds), but there are many legitimate examples of goods being valued significantly differently between countries, such as technology products being much cheaper in the USA than here, or alcohol being much more expensive in, say, Scandinavia (for a variety of tax/duty/competition/market/legal reasons), so I don't think that the 'bargain' valuation necessarily signifies any wrongdoing.... Is a half-price sale at a retailer here automatically suspicious?
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    Yes as most sales in shops these days are fake - most have sale after sale after sale
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • bris
    • By bris 15th Jun 17, 8:14 PM
    • 6,646 Posts
    • 5,691 Thanks
    bris
    The chances of a successful chargeback from a bank in the UAE are slim to none. Your bank doesn't give you the money back they need to request it from the sellers account.


    Do you really think a UAE bank will be singed up to our chargeback scheme?
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 15th Jun 17, 11:17 PM
    • 23,821 Posts
    • 11,028 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    The chances of a successful chargeback from a bank in the UAE are slim to none. Your bank doesn't give you the money back they need to request it from the sellers account.


    Do you really think a UAE bank will be singed up to our chargeback scheme?
    Originally posted by bris
    The chargeback would be done via Visa and they are certainly part of that - not that I think that the OP has a hope in a successful claim.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 16th Jun 17, 8:05 AM
    • 4,796 Posts
    • 4,437 Thanks
    eddddy
    Chargeback may be relevant where there is a beach of contract.

    In this case, that would be a breach of UAE contract law (not UK contract law).


    For example, the "not as described" argument is based on UK consumer law, there may be no similar law in the UAE.

    And "misrepresentation" laws may be different in the UAE - for example, it may be more of a case of "buyer beware".
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 16th Jun 17, 5:13 PM
    • 3,935 Posts
    • 1,202 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    The chances of a successful chargeback from a bank in the UAE are slim to none. Your bank doesn't give you the money back they need to request it from the sellers account.


    Do you really think a UAE bank will be singed up to our chargeback scheme?
    Originally posted by bris
    Would that be the Little England chargeback scheme?
    • meer53
    • By meer53 16th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • 8,772 Posts
    • 12,736 Thanks
    meer53
    The chances of a successful chargeback from a bank in the UAE are slim to none. Your bank doesn't give you the money back they need to request it from the sellers account.


    Do you really think a UAE bank will be singed up to our chargeback scheme?
    Originally posted by bris
    It's not OUR chargeback scheme, it's a worldwide scheme provided by Visa International, the regulations are the same wherever the card issuer is.
    • bukko
    • By bukko 18th Jun 17, 6:05 AM
    • 126 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    bukko
    Thanks for all the replies.
    All these posts are pretty much how our own discussion has been going.

    However, the ring was delivered and we are now back in the UK.
    We are going to get it valued here just to be sure it's legit, but have decided we probably won't take any further action unless there's a significant difference.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 18th Jun 17, 6:18 AM
    • 1,464 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    Robin9
    Your son bought this ring for his wife - to her the ring will be priceless. It will never be sold and its cost/value is irrevelant.

    Move on.
    • d123
    • By d123 18th Jun 17, 1:54 PM
    • 6,371 Posts
    • 4,116 Thanks
    d123
    Another point to consider is that bad debts are a criminal offence in the UAE, getting a chargeback may well get your money back but the possibility exists that the retailer could open a case with the police and if you're still in the country could be arrested and jailed, if you've left the country a warrant of arrest would be issued and you would be arrested and jailed if you ever went back or transited thorough the UAE.

    Legal advice from someone conversant in UAE law might be a better starting point.
    ====
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 18th Jun 17, 6:25 PM
    • 9,340 Posts
    • 5,971 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Another point to consider is that bad debts are a criminal offence in the UAE, getting a chargeback may well get your money back but the possibility exists that the retailer could open a case with the police and if you're still in the country could be arrested and jailed, if you've left the country a warrant of arrest would be issued and you would be arrested and jailed if you ever went back or transited thorough the UAE.

    Legal advice from someone conversant in UAE law might be a better starting point.
    Originally posted by d123
    My understanding is that under Islamic law there is no differentiation between civil and criminal. So defaulting on a debt is basically the same as theft.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

140Posts Today

1,276Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Byebye! I'm about to stop work & twitter, to instead spend glorious time with Mrs & mini MSE. Wishing u a lovely summer. See u in 10 days.

  • WARNING Did you start Uni in or after 2012? The interest's rising to 6.1%; yet it doesnt work like you think. See https://t.co/IQ8f0Vyetu RT

  • RT @JanaBeee: @MartinSLewis Boris is the anomaly (coffee), the others are versions of normal (beer). Lots of same candidates = vote share d?

  • Follow Martin