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  • FIRST POST
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 14th Jun 17, 9:53 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 2Thanks
    lewiserz3
    Self employed - can I lie?
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:53 PM
    Self employed - can I lie? 14th Jun 17 at 9:53 PM
    Hi all, wondering if anyone has any insight or suggestions at all for our situation:

    - My partner has a full time job with a wage of £17k p/a.
    - She also works part time for a Ltd company we both part own, 50% each.
    - I am employed by the company and take a PAYE salary of £11k p/a.
    - We both take dividends ad hoc throughout the year.
    - The company has been in existence for 1 year only.
    - The company gets ad hoc work with no long term contracts (e.g. more than a couple of months)

    - We have a £10k deposit
    - We're looking for a mortgage for £65-£90k
    - This would be our first property

    The issue we've come across like many others, is that lenders consider me as self employed and want a minimum of 2 years of trading/income/profit proofs, which obviously I don't have.

    Many lenders it seems will provide up to around 4 times our combined wage so we only really need to get accepted both our salaries as we don't need the extra income from our dividends to get our mortgage target of £65-£90k.

    So;

    1) Can I just tell a lie of omission to the lender and say that I'm employed and provide my PAYE payslips with the required information on to get this accepted, without disclosing that I own 50% of the company that pays my salary?

    2) Will the lender check with companies house as to whether or not I'm a shareholder in the company I say I'm employed by?

    3) Will the lender ask me outright if I am a shareholder in any company, meaning that I'd specifically have to lie, which I'm assuming would be fraud?

    4) Assuming I'd be caught out by the lender or I'd be committing fraud if I lied, which for the record I have no intention of doing, is anyone aware of any lenders who might accept my salary as an employed individual rather than classing me as self employed?

    Thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • dimbo61
    • By dimbo61 14th Jun 17, 9:58 PM
    • 9,388 Posts
    • 5,092 Thanks
    dimbo61
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:58 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:58 PM
    You need a broker and lying will not help at all.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 14th Jun 17, 10:11 PM
    • 15,040 Posts
    • 7,603 Thanks
    ACG
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:11 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:11 PM
    Some lenders do companies house checks as standard.

    There are lenders who will accept one years accounts, it may cost you a little more but at least you do not risk wasting your time, money and ending up on the watch list that lenders subscribe to.

    Do it right, it is not worth the risks.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • Dollydaydreama
    • By Dollydaydreama 14th Jun 17, 10:36 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Dollydaydreama
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:36 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:36 PM
    Contact Aldermore bank, we used then as self employed they might be able to help you with 12 months accounts, lying will only catch up with you.
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 14th Jun 17, 10:44 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lewiserz3
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:44 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:44 PM
    Thanks for your responses. Just to be clear, I don't intend on lying, the questions were more directed as to the likelihood of being able to say I'm employed, which is true, and be treated as such by a lender.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 14th Jun 17, 10:49 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 364 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:49 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:49 PM
    I expect that registering yourself as an employee of the company you own, and hence paying CGT instead of Income Tax, is how you have the £10K deposit.
    Could you get a part-time job, registered as an employee ; even if it paid only £5K per year, would that help ?

    How urgently do you need to move ?
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 14th Jun 17, 10:55 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lewiserz3
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:55 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:55 PM
    Contact Aldermore bank, we used then as self employed they might be able to help you with 12 months accounts, lying will only catch up with you.
    Originally posted by Dollydaydreama
    I just checked out Aldermore and their website says it's 2 years of accounts for Self Employed - just in case anyone else views this and wonders. Perhaps they've changed policy since you applied.
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 14th Jun 17, 11:17 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lewiserz3
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 11:17 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 11:17 PM
    I expect that registering yourself as an employee of the company you own, and hence paying CGT instead of Income Tax, is how you have the £10K deposit.
    Could you get a part-time job, registered as an employee ; even if it paid only £5K per year, would that help ?

    How urgently do you need to move ?
    Originally posted by Geoff1963
    No, I'm an employee and pay Income tax and NI via PAYE - although not much as it's only just above the threshold. I pay corporation tax on profits before we then take dividends out and pay tax on anything over and above the tax free allowance. No CGT involved at all - isn't that only involved when selling of assets?

    The £10k is from my savings.

    We're currently staying with my partners parents, but are moving to Glasgow in September as my partner will be undertaking a course part time. We'd like to have a place sorted by then to save money over renting.

    I also don't have time for a part time job as I'm currently working full time on a contract for the company which will continue until October.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 15th Jun 17, 9:59 AM
    • 15,040 Posts
    • 7,603 Thanks
    ACG
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 9:59 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 9:59 AM
    Aldermore can work off 1 years accounts, but I am sure there are better options than aldermore out there.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 15th Jun 17, 11:33 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lewiserz3
    Aldermore can work off 1 years accounts, but I am sure there are better options than aldermore out there.
    Originally posted by ACG
    Ok, it says 2 years on the website. Did you go through a broker rather than direct or was it perhaps with your circumstances they were prepared to accept only 1 year? (at least suggesting they're prepared to be flexible)
    • ACG
    • By ACG 15th Jun 17, 11:37 AM
    • 15,040 Posts
    • 7,603 Thanks
    ACG
    Did you go through a broker
    Originally posted by lewiserz3
    I am one :P
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • Potbellypig
    • By Potbellypig 15th Jun 17, 7:13 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Potbellypig
    Another option is for you to use a specialist contractor mortgage broker. They will look at lenders for you that will look at only 1 years accounts. I've recently had a decision in principal without even the accounts being completed yet.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 15th Jun 17, 7:20 PM
    • 54,299 Posts
    • 47,086 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    No, I'm an employee
    Originally posted by lewiserz3
    Who are the Directors and Shareholders of the Company?
    “ “Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria. The time of maximum pessimism is the best time to buy, and the time of maximum optimism is the best time to sell.” Sir John Marks Templeton
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 15th Jun 17, 11:41 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lewiserz3
    Another option is for you to use a specialist contractor mortgage broker. They will look at lenders for you that will look at only 1 years accounts. I've recently had a decision in principal without even the accounts being completed yet.
    Originally posted by Potbellypig
    Thanks; are you able to suggest any? It might still be cutting it a bit close, as the company has actually only been incorporated for 11 months despite the fact I was working before then and we wanted to be moving into a property in 3 months time.

    Who are the Directors and Shareholders of the Company?
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    I said this in the original post but I'll let you off given it was quite long! Both myself and my partner are director/shareholders, owning 50% each, but it's only myself that is an employee of the company who is paid a salary via PAYE.
    • Potbellypig
    • By Potbellypig 26th Jun 17, 6:43 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Potbellypig
    Thanks; are you able to suggest any? It might still be cutting it a bit close, as the company has actually only been incorporated for 11 months despite the fact I was working before then and we wanted to be moving into a property in 3 months time..
    Originally posted by lewiserz3
    Contractormortgagesuk is the one I used, but I'm sure there are plenty others that do the same thing.
    • VFR-Rider
    • By VFR-Rider 27th Jun 17, 1:30 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    VFR-Rider
    I used a broker from this very site - I chose them by stalking the site for a while & seeing how they interacted (I'd actually shortlisted 3 of them) then I chose the physically closest to me in case I needed any actual meetings (I didn't).

    Best decision I ever made - I've now gone through a renewal for them and even though there was no carrot for him, he again bent over backwards to help.

    Remember the MB's on this site are people as well, pick up the phone and ask them about your case specifics.
    saving, saving, saving!
    • MrsNubs
    • By MrsNubs 27th Jun 17, 1:55 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 89 Thanks
    MrsNubs
    You called your thread 'can I lie' and then said this:

    I don't intend on lying
    Clearly you did intend on lying, but changed your story when no one backed you up.
    • lewiserz3
    • By lewiserz3 5th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    lewiserz3
    Clearly you did intend on lying, but changed your story when no one backed you up.
    Originally posted by MrsNubs
    I put that I had no intention of lying quite simply because I had no intention of lying - I'm aware that this would be fraud and have serious implications. The title was merely over dramatic purely to drum up more interest in the thread.
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