Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • mgldev
    • By mgldev 14th Jun 17, 6:03 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 3Thanks
    mgldev
    Car theft - piggy in the middle with GAP provider and insurer
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:03 PM
    Car theft - piggy in the middle with GAP provider and insurer 14th Jun 17 at 6:03 PM
    Hi guys,

    I'd like to see if you guys could share any opinions / suggestions regarding my situation.

    I had my car stolen on Monday 5th May at 5am - the theives threw a brick through the living room window, stole the keys and took the car. The sound woke me up and I was unfortunate enough to hear the sound of my engine running from my bedroom, look out of the window and see the car drive off.

    Fast track past all of the Police interaction and initial reporting to my Insurer (Highway Insurance / Liverpool Victoria / LV) and my GAP Insurer (Mapfre Abraxis) and I'll explain where I'm at today.

    - The car was 3 months in to a 48 month PCP agreement with BMW Financial Services
    - The excess on the LV policy is £500
    - LV have valued the car at £23,150
    - LV have received a settlement figure from BMW Financial Services of £24,600
    - Mapre Abraxis have valued the car at £24,400. They have used GlassNet / Glass' Guide to produce their valuation and have provided a screenshot of the exact quote.
    - The 'Net Invoice Price' of the vehicle on the GAP policy is the price I paid for the car, £24,980
    - Mapfre Abraxis GAP / 'Short Fall' insurance only covers from their valuation (£24,400) up to the Net Invoice Price (£24,980) plus they'll cover up to £500 excess on the LV insurance policy. This results in an offer of £580 short fall plus £500 excess, £1080 in total
    - The difference between the LV valuation and Mapre Abraxis valuation is £1,250

    [Pay out] = (£23,150 [LV valuation] - £500 [LV excess]) + (£480 [Mapfre shortfall] + £500 [Mapfree excess cover]) = £23,630

    £24,600 [BMW Settlement] - £23,630 [Pay out] = £970

    This leaves me with £970 to find myself to settle the BMW PCP agreement.

    When I first spoke to Mapre Abraxis and discovered my GAP policy did not cover the difference between the LV valuation and the Net Invoice Price I was dissapointed however I do understand that it's down to me to read the T&Cs in full and that failure lies with me.

    Mapre Abraxis have said they are not permitted / authorised (based on the T&Cs of my policy) to negotiate with LV on my behalf to get LV's valuation increased to match that of Mapfre's and that it is down to me to contact LV and push for an increase.

    Accepting this information I emailed LV, attaching Mapfre's GlassNet valuation screenshot, and asked for an explaination as to how they arrived at the £23,150. Dissapointingly the email was sent this Monday at 8am and by 6pm on Tuesday I still hadn't heard back. I contacted LV last night and requested a different email address and re-forwarded the email along with expressing being unhappy at the response times. It got to 3pm this afternoon and still no response so I decided to get in touch to speak about the valuation over the phone.

    I didn't quite catch exactly what she was saying regarding how they arrived at the valuation as the connection was poor - however when the line cleared up the operator advised that I am free to dispute the valuation and in order to do so I should contact Mapre Abraxis and request three separate valuations of my vehicle using the same specifications and send them through to LV - at which point the dispute will be assessed and a decision will be made.

    I've since contacted Mapfre Abraxis and have been informed that they are not obliged to generate these valuations and my insurers should not have made that suggestion - and my policy with Mapfre does not include services for Mapfre to act on my behalf with LV.

    It's looking like it's now down to me to provide three separate valuations of my car to LV in an attempt to get them to increase their valuation.

    I find the whole situation frustrating and I'm sure I'm not the first to be in this position. We do everything we can to ensure we're safe and legal drivers on the road and get all of what we believe to be the right agreements in place to ensure should the worst happen we're not out of pocket, however when it comes to the claim process both insurers are doing all they can to reduce the amount they have to pay out, leaving the consumer worse off.

    Can anybody provide any recommendations as to how to go about retrieving the three valuations I've been asked to provide - any particular online tools or services I can use to best position myself for a successful increase of the valuation?

    Is there anything that stands out about my situation where either insurance party is in the wrong / any recommendations of a complaint I should be making?

    Sorry for the long post, quite a bit to explain that's gone on over the last 2 weeks!

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Last edited by mgldev; 15-06-2017 at 5:16 PM.
Page 1
    • Nobbie1967
    • By Nobbie1967 14th Jun 17, 6:11 PM
    • 592 Posts
    • 706 Thanks
    Nobbie1967
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:11 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:11 PM
    I'd stick with supplying LV with the screenshot from the gap insurance provider. If they don't move on the offer, then go to the insurance ombudsman where they will have to justify their lower offer. No guarantee you'll win, but even threatening to do it may prompt an improved offer.
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 14th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    • 6,934 Posts
    • 5,301 Thanks
    daveyjp
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    Not the first time I've heard this and it is a downside of GAP insurance.

    A similar issue happened to a colleague and it took 6 months to sort out, in the meantime he had to fund a replacement vehicle so he was well out of pocket.
    • mgldev
    • By mgldev 14th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mgldev
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    Not the first time I've heard this and it is a downside of GAP insurance.

    A similar issue happened to a colleague and it took 6 months to sort out, in the meantime he had to fund a replacement vehicle so he was well out of pocket.
    Originally posted by daveyjp
    This is it - I need to get back driving so I've been looking on Autotrader / eBay for a vehicle around the £1000 mark for the time being - but that cash will be coming direct from my next wage and I can't make any decisions as if I have to cover the difference here myself then that eats up the budget for the car.

    Nightmare
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 14th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 12,436 Thanks
    dacouch
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    How old was your car when your first purchased it and were you the first registered keeper?
    • mgldev
    • By mgldev 14th Jun 17, 7:08 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mgldev
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:08 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:08 PM
    How old was your car when your first purchased it and were you the first registered keeper?
    Originally posted by dacouch
    It was a BMW Used Approved, second owner, 2016 plate on 9k miles. I'm not sure of the exact registration date, with it being a 2016 plate and having purchased it in March I'd make a guess at it being just under or over a year old.

    EDIT
    --------
    Only a little bit off!

    Just found the original docs - it's a 65 plate registered on 01/09/2015.
    Last edited by mgldev; 14-06-2017 at 7:11 PM.
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 14th Jun 17, 8:14 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 12,436 Thanks
    dacouch
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 8:14 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 8:14 PM
    There is potentially some help we can give you.

    I am struggling to find the actual Policy wording for the Gap cover you have, it is important we read this as it is in effect a contract and there can often be helpful items within it.

    Do you have a link to it?

    I note the gap cover BMW push sells itself on.... "In the event of a total loss, our experienced BMW Protect Services team will be on hand to guide you through the claims process."

    Is this the same cover you have?

    edit and the BMW cover includes this... "Where the motor insurance settlement offer is below our valuation of the insured vehicle prior
    to the date of total loss, we may at our discretion and with your consent attempt to negotiate
    an increased motor insurance settlement on your behalf. We reserve the right to calculate our
    settlement based on market value."

    N.B for anyone with access to the trade guides, the BMW cover only uses the Glasses guide valuation. (We may have an argument against this later)
    Last edited by dacouch; 14-06-2017 at 8:19 PM.
    • mgldev
    • By mgldev 14th Jun 17, 8:39 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mgldev
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 8:39 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 8:39 PM
    There is potentially some help we can give you.

    I am struggling to find the actual Policy wording for the Gap cover you have, it is important we read this as it is in effect a contract and there can often be helpful items within it.

    Do you have a link to it?

    I note the gap cover BMW push sells itself on.... "In the event of a total loss, our experienced BMW Protect Services team will be on hand to guide you through the claims process."

    Is this the same cover you have?

    edit and the BMW cover includes this... "Where the motor insurance settlement offer is below our valuation of the insured vehicle prior
    to the date of total loss, we may at our discretion and with your consent attempt to negotiate
    an increased motor insurance settlement on your behalf. We reserve the right to calculate our
    settlement based on market value."

    N.B for anyone with access to the trade guides, the BMW cover only uses the Glasses guide valuation. (We may have an argument against this later)
    Originally posted by dacouch
    I'll have a look around to see if I can find the original leaflets that only breifly explained the GAP insurance - I don't believe the service offered is the BMW Protect Services package - they were branded up as Mapre Abrexis, and I don't recall the any quotes regarding attempting to negotate with the insurer.

    I have PM'd you the actual Mapre Abraxis T&C / policy document.

    Thanks for getting back.
    Mike
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 14th Jun 17, 9:22 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 12,436 Thanks
    dacouch
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:22 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:22 PM
    I have not received your PM
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 14th Jun 17, 11:05 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 12,436 Thanks
    dacouch
    The relevant parts of the OP's schedule / policy wording are thus

    Current Value means the greater of either the Motor Insurance Settlement or the Market Value of the Insured Vehicle

     Market Value means the value of the Insured Vehicle at the Date of Loss by reference to Glass’s Guide retail
    transacted value. Please note that if modifications have been made, or optional accessories included at the time of
    purchase or hire/lease, We may request an assessors report to establish the value of the Insured Vehicle

     Motor Insurance Settlement means the value of the Insured Vehicle at the Date of Loss as assessed by Your Motor
    Insurance Policy provider or the Third Party’s Motor Insurance, excluding:
    a) Contents, and any deductions for damage not associated with the Total Loss claim
    b) Deductions made where You fail to maintain the Insured Vehicle or keep it in a roadworthy condition
    c) Any rebates, arrears or associated fees, if not already applied
    d) Any salvage amount deducted
    e) Any more than the limit specified on Your Certificate of Insurance for dealer fitted accessories
    f) Any portion of Your Motor Insurance Policy excess that exceeds the limit specified on Your Certificate of
    Insurance, and;
    g) Any premium owed that is deducted

    Conditions

    2. You must contact Us prior to accepting any Motor Insurance Settlement. Where You do not contact Us prior to
    accepting any Motor Insurance Settlement, We reserve the right to use the Market Value of the Insured Vehicle as a
    substitute for the Motor Insurance Settlement
    • Nodding Donkey
    • By Nodding Donkey 15th Jun 17, 6:15 AM
    • 2,367 Posts
    • 1,976 Thanks
    Nodding Donkey
    Wow that seems a bit harsh. When did an Insurer EVER value a car at Glass's Retail?
    • henry24
    • By henry24 15th Jun 17, 10:02 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    henry24
    How big is your house? They threw a brick though the window climbed in without getting cut found your car keys climbed back out started the car while you could only get to the bedroom window
    • mgldev
    • By mgldev 15th Jun 17, 11:15 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mgldev
    How big is your house? They threw a brick though the window climbed in without getting cut found your car keys climbed back out started the car while you could only get to the bedroom window
    Originally posted by henry24
    The keys were underneath the coffee table in the middle of the room. They didn't climb in through the window - they must have used an improvised prop to hook the keys - which then raises questions about having been monitored / surveyed in terms of knowing where they were kept.

    I'm a deep sleeper and the window smashing was enough to wake me up, but by the time I'd realised what was happening they'd had enough time to get the keys, start the car and drive off.

    Police recommend that people do not keep their keys upstairs to avoid any possible confrontation - however in future I would keep them in a kitchen drawer and not in the living room.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 15th Jun 17, 11:15 AM
    • 9,715 Posts
    • 6,731 Thanks
    neilmcl
    How big is your house? They threw a brick though the window climbed in without getting cut found your car keys climbed back out started the car while you could only get to the bedroom window
    Originally posted by henry24
    For all you know the keys could've been on display in easy reach of the window.
    • CB1878
    • By CB1878 15th Jun 17, 11:59 AM
    • 91 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    CB1878
    Conditions

    2. You must contact Us prior to accepting any Motor Insurance Settlement. Where You do not contact Us prior to
    accepting any Motor Insurance Settlement, We reserve the right to use the Market Value of the Insured Vehicle as a
    substitute for the Motor Insurance Settlement

    This is quite typical of the older style wordings used in motor dealer policies for Gap which can put the onus on you to chase around to get an increased offer.

    The online providers tend to have a more customer focused approach with a 'best endevours' type wording whereby the Gap claims team reserve the right to attempt to get a higher settlement on your behalf.

    Something like

    Best Endeavours

    Prior to accepting any motor insurers settlement, you must be able to demonstrate to the claims administrator that you have used your best endeavours to obtain the maximum settlement under your motor insurance policy. If you accept any settlement which is less than the Glass' Guide Retail transacted value of the vehicle at time of total loss the claims administrator reserves the right to seek an increased settlement on your behalf. You must give the claims administrator every assistance.


    By the way this was taken from a current online policy wording underwritten the same insurer as the OP has with the dealer policy.

    To be fair the Gap Insurance underwriter has to ensure that a motor insurer could not offer a ridiculously low figure, if they find out that the policyholder has a Gap Insurance and they think they can get the Gap to pay something the motor insurer should be. However it would increase the workload of the Gap claims team if they had to challenge every claim so hence why the older dealer policies probably still have the wording the OP has seen.

    You can get a fairer approach on newer Gap policies these days.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 15th Jun 17, 2:52 PM
    • 3,366 Posts
    • 2,555 Thanks
    sheramber
    When our car was written off Tesco offered £1000 below Glasses value..

    When my husband argued for the Glasses valuation they put him on hold for 5 minutes then came back with the full offer.
    • jonathon
    • By jonathon 15th Jun 17, 5:24 PM
    • 707 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    jonathon
    when my sons car was written off under 12 months old on a pcp deal the insurer just replaced the car with a new one
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 15th Jun 17, 7:38 PM
    • 20,162 Posts
    • 12,436 Thanks
    dacouch
    I recommend you read this link a few times as it explains exactly how your Insurer should value your vehicle. Pay particular attention to the requirement for the Insurer to obtain valuations from the three different price guides as many Insurers only use one valuation guide.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150901004439/http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-valuation.html
    I suggest you digest this and see if your vehicle Insurer has valued the vehicle in line with the way the Ombudsman requires them to.

    If they have not you need to draw your Insurers attention to the this.

    If they have valued the vehicle correctly you may be able to get the Ombudsman to enforce the Gap Insurer to adopt the same method to value the vehicle eg obtain three valuations etc etc
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 15th Jun 17, 9:01 PM
    • 9,715 Posts
    • 6,731 Thanks
    neilmcl
    when my sons car was written off under 12 months old on a pcp deal the insurer just replaced the car with a new one
    Originally posted by jonathon
    This was a theft, it's common for insurers to offer new car replacement for total write offs within 12 months but not theft.
    • mgldev
    • By mgldev 15th Jun 17, 9:46 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mgldev
    I recommend you read this link a few times as it explains exactly how your Insurer should value your vehicle. Pay particular attention to the requirement for the Insurer to obtain valuations from the three different price guides as many Insurers only use one valuation guide.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150901004439/http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-valuation.html
    I suggest you digest this and see if your vehicle Insurer has valued the vehicle in line with the way the Ombudsman requires them to.

    If they have not you need to draw your Insurers attention to the this.

    If they have valued the vehicle correctly you may be able to get the Ombudsman to enforce the Gap Insurer to adopt the same method to value the vehicle eg obtain three valuations etc etc
    Originally posted by dacouch
    Thanks for this - I'll have a proper read tomorrow and form an email to my insurer.

    I will report back and let you know how things are progressing.

    Thanks to all for your replies so far - looking forward to getting this resolved.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

234Posts Today

3,457Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Byebye! I'm about to stop work & twitter, to instead spend glorious time with Mrs & mini MSE. Wishing u a lovely summer. See u in 10 days.

  • WARNING Did you start Uni in or after 2012? The interest's rising to 6.1%; yet it doesnt work like you think. See https://t.co/IQ8f0Vyetu RT

  • RT @JanaBeee: @MartinSLewis Boris is the anomaly (coffee), the others are versions of normal (beer). Lots of same candidates = vote share d?

  • Follow Martin