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    • wolf734
    • By wolf734 14th Jun 17, 5:14 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    wolf734
    Please help, store wont accept refund
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:14 PM
    Please help, store wont accept refund 14th Jun 17 at 5:14 PM
    I bought a Macbook pro from Argos and upon getting the item home discovered the screen starts flickering and is clearly defective. Took it back to Argos (different to closest one, only place that had in stock) miles away to be told unless I could prove an intermittent fault that they wouldn't do a thing about it. Took it to my closest one this morning and was told to call apple again and the I contacted Argos customer supports technical, who agreed on the phone it needs a replacement and got a ref number to take into store to get a replacement. They wouldn't even listen about the ref number and told me to f off.

    What are my rights here, I know my contract is with the supplier who won't do a thing and that's wrong. I want a refund and if I go through apple its unlikely ill get one. In the future I advise anyone not to shop there as this whole experience has started making me ill.
Page 2
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 14th Jun 17, 9:14 PM
    • 2,237 Posts
    • 2,661 Thanks
    daytona0
    If the retailer is telling you to "f off" then you need to either:

    A. Approach the manufacturer (apple) in regards to any warranty you have and see what they say.

    B. Obtain an independent fault report (probably from apple) which shows an inherent fault. Present this to Argos. If they still decline to refund/replace/repair the item (I believe they can choose the remedy) and reimburse your fault report cost, you can send them a letter before action. Once you've given them some time to (not) answer the letter before action, you take them to small claims court. You'll probably (90% is my guess) win your case and you'll get your money back.

    You could also approach a different Argos store, but be mindful that visiting too many may render your comment "I should not have to, its an inconvenience (30 miles away) [to go to apple]" moot.

    Though the advice given in point B is based on my understanding a few years ago and, unless someone wants to add to/correct my post, you'll have to do some leg work yourself. Or get a solicitor.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 14th Jun 17, 9:26 PM
    • 11,278 Posts
    • 8,492 Thanks
    unholyangel
    i did not ask to be grilled on my fault or how I may handle it in the future. I wanted my legal arguments not debate the facts of the case.
    Originally posted by wolf734
    How do you propose we ascertain which legal arguments are suitable and won't leave you looking foolish using an argument that doesn't apply to your circumstances without debating the facts of the case?

    FWIW, try videoing the laptop misbehaving and contacting Argos head office. They may just tell you to take it back to store again - if they do, go into the store and take a letter before action & a copy of the video proving the faults along with you.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • wolf734
    • By wolf734 14th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wolf734
    If the retailer is telling you to "f off" then you need to either:

    A. Approach the manufacturer (apple) in regards to any warranty you have and see what they say.

    B. Obtain an independent fault report (probably from apple) which shows an inherent fault. Present this to Argos. If they still decline to refund/replace/repair the item (I believe they can choose the remedy) and reimburse your fault report cost, you can send them a letter before action. Once you've given them some time to (not) answer the letter before action, you take them to small claims court. You'll probably (90% is my guess) win your case and you'll get your money back.

    You could also approach a different Argos store, but be mindful that visiting too many may render your comment "I should not have to, its an inconvenience (30 miles away) [to go to apple]" moot.

    Though the advice given in point B is based on my understanding a few years ago and, unless someone wants to add to/correct my post, you'll have to do some leg work yourself. Or get a solicitor.
    Originally posted by daytona0
    How do you propose we ascertain which legal arguments are suitable and won't leave you looking foolish using an argument that doesn't apply to your circumstances without debating the facts of the case?

    FWIW, try videoing the laptop misbehaving and contacting Argos head office. They may just tell you to take it back to store again - if they do, go into the store and take a letter before action & a copy of the video proving the faults along with you.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Thank you both, much appreciated. I am a solicitor but just wanted to brush up my logic on consumer law and though people who know this better may be able to help (do not practice it at all), I would agree that the chance of winning is 90% +. For anyone else wondering, if an item is less than 30 days old you are entitled to a recourse of action YOU find acceptable after 30 its the supplier who chooses. The supplier should not refer anybody to the manufacturer as the contract is with the store and not the manufacturer.
    • LABMAN
    • By LABMAN 14th Jun 17, 10:08 PM
    • 638 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    LABMAN
    Did someone from Argos actually say to 'f off'?
    Je suis Parisien
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 14th Jun 17, 10:13 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    The supplier should not refer anybody to the manufacturer as the contract is with the store and not the manufacturer.
    Originally posted by wolf734
    some do as it can be a lot quicker to get an issue sorted, as stores are not tech specialists as i stated earlier you will wait at least 14 days to get a repaired booked through Argos, but with Apple it can be all sorted the same day.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 14th Jun 17, 10:16 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    For anyone else wondering, if an item is less than 30 days old you are entitled to a recourse of action YOU find acceptable after 30 its the supplier who chooses.
    Originally posted by wolf734
    Assuming the goods are inherently faulty, I would suggest that during the first thirty days following a sale the consumer's options are:
    1) reject the goods for a full refund.
    2) accept a remedy offered by the seller, which could be either a repair, replacement or refund - seller's choice.

    Note that if the consumer take the short term right to reject option, then the onus is on the consumer to prove that the goods do not conform to contract.

    It might also be worth considering that if a refund is decided upon, then the seller is under no obligation to sell you anything else - like perhaps a replacement.

    P.s. I am not a solicitor - just offering an opinion.
    Last edited by wealdroam; 14-06-2017 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Add post-script
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 14th Jun 17, 10:26 PM
    • 29,946 Posts
    • 18,968 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Did someone from Argos actually say to 'f off'?
    Originally posted by LABMAN
    I dont believe they did but we only have 1 side of the events.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • timbstoke
    • By timbstoke 15th Jun 17, 1:32 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,199 Thanks
    timbstoke
    Thank you both, much appreciated. I am a solicitor but just wanted to brush up my logic on consumer law and though people who know this better may be able to help (do not practice it at all), I would agree that the chance of winning is 90% +. For anyone else wondering, if an item is less than 30 days old you are entitled to a recourse of action YOU find acceptable after 30 its the supplier who chooses. The supplier should not refer anybody to the manufacturer as the contract is with the store and not the manufacturer.
    Originally posted by wolf734
    So you're a solicitor, but rather than take 5 minutes to read SOGA or CRA, you decided to ask a bunch of strangers on the internet, then get upset when you don't like what you hear? Yeah, OK.
    • wolf734
    • By wolf734 15th Jun 17, 3:17 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wolf734
    well considering there is a lot more to it than just those 2 acts maybe I already did, but tell me, when you need to know judicatory president and EU / International law it would take a while and I already do all that for my day job and trust me its not that simple as two acts, the courts are for clarity of the law, the statues themselves are limited to the courts interpretation of said acts and how its applied. But yeah im now not a solicitor hmmm should get my head checked then; knew I should have a doctor.
    • wolf734
    • By wolf734 15th Jun 17, 3:19 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wolf734
    I also know now not to ask questions to !!!!! on the internet.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 15th Jun 17, 3:25 PM
    • 3,149 Posts
    • 5,435 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    You'd think a solicitor would be able to form better sentences and use correct grammar and punctuation.

    Although saying that I've met quite a few through my job over the years that I can't help but wonder who they blackmailed to get as far as they did considering their lack of skills in English and lack of common sense. I used to think it was a professional job needing exceptional literacy skills but I now know they hand law degrees out to anyone who can scrawl their own name.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 15th Jun 17, 3:39 PM
    • 2,049 Posts
    • 1,040 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    I am a solicitor but just wanted to brush up
    Originally posted by wolf734
    But yeah im now not a solicitor hmmm should get my head checked then
    Originally posted by wolf734
    Does not compute .......... apart from getting head checked because one of us is confused.
    • bris
    • By bris 15th Jun 17, 7:16 PM
    • 6,818 Posts
    • 5,850 Thanks
    bris
    But your case is as simple as simple could be. You take it back, they say it's not faulty so you prove otherwise and get a resolution of your choice. As it's less than 30 days then you get to chose the remedy.


    I don't know what law school you went to but saying you shouldn't need to do this is just, well I can't explain why a solicitor wouldn't know that.


    You actually asked for legal advice? Do you not work with other solicitors? I think you tripped yourself up on this troll attempt.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 15th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    If argos not playing ball then take it to Apple and it will get sorted under manufacturers warranty.

    It is suspicious that you dont want to have the manufacturer look at it
    • cookie365
    • By cookie365 16th Jun 17, 2:47 PM
    • 1,706 Posts
    • 1,089 Thanks
    cookie365
    well considering there is a lot more to it than just those 2 acts maybe I already did, but tell me, when you need to know judicatory president and EU / International law it would take a while and I already do all that for my day job and trust me its not that simple as two acts, the courts are for clarity of the law, the statues themselves are limited to the courts interpretation of said acts and how its applied. But yeah im now not a solicitor hmmm should get my head checked then; knew I should have a doctor.
    Originally posted by wolf734
    I've worked with lots of solicitors over the years, and all of them knew how to spell 'judiciary' and 'precedent' - and they even knew what the words actually mean.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 16th Jun 17, 3:15 PM
    • 9,971 Posts
    • 6,972 Thanks
    neilmcl
    I've worked with lots of solicitors over the years, and all of them knew how to spell 'judiciary' and 'precedent' - and they even knew what the words actually mean.
    Originally posted by cookie365
    Not to mention statute. I though the school holidays were over this week.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 16th Jun 17, 3:44 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 533 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Somewhat off topic but this thread (and another one a couple of weeks ago on the Employment board by, I think, "Houndedout") reminds me of something I read years ago in a book (Psychiatry in Dissent) by Anthony Clare, the psychiatrist who was also a TV personality.


    If I remember correctly, he described an experiment carried out by researchers in the US. They believed that mental illness did not exist and that it was purely a social construct. (By the way, I'm not debating the pros and cons of this view!).


    In order to test this hypothesis they arranged to have volunteers present themselves at hospitals across the States, demonstrating various symptoms of mental illness. Needless to say these volunteers were all lying and the symptoms were made up (in the sense that they were not really suffering from them).


    Some volunteers were rumbled and politely told to stop wasting the hospital's time. But a surprisingly high number of volunteers were believed and diagnosed as suffering from a mental illness, and were admitted for treatment.


    The researchers took these hospital admissions as evidence that mental illness didn't really exist.


    (Personally I'd be more worried about a hospital listening to someone demonstrating clearly schizophrenic symptoms and then sending them away as mental illness does not exist! I think Dr Clare was similarly critical.)


    Something about these two threads reminds me of that experiment...


    (PS - apologies if I've misremembered Dr Clare's account!)
    Last edited by Manxman in exile; 16-06-2017 at 3:48 PM. Reason: Additions
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 18th Jun 17, 11:14 AM
    • 3,898 Posts
    • 4,224 Thanks
    robatwork
    well considering there is a lot more to it than just those 2 acts maybe I already did, but tell me, when you need to know judicatory president and EU / International law it would take a while and I already do all that for my day job and trust me its not that simple as two acts, the courts are for clarity of the law, the statues themselves are limited to the courts interpretation of said acts and how its applied. But yeah im now not a solicitor hmmm should get my head checked then; knew I should have a doctor.
    Originally posted by wolf734
    In years to come this post should become part of MSE folklore.

    I'd like to type more, but Mr Precedent just called and told me my application to become an astronaut has succeeded so I need to fly away.
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