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  • FIRST POST
    • geewcee
    • By geewcee 14th Jun 17, 11:12 AM
    • 72Posts
    • 78Thanks
    geewcee
    Cashpoint problem
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 17, 11:12 AM
    Cashpoint problem 14th Jun 17 at 11:12 AM
    Wasn't sure where else to post this, if mods feel it needs to be moved please do.
    Wife went to the local Morrisons on Saturday to withdraw her weekly funds of £170 cash, which covers petrol, groceries etc for the week. The cash points there were all closed for refurbishment so she travelled a bit further afield to the local Co-op. She withdrew the money, but the cash point only dispensed £120, so a full £50 short. She wondered if she had made a mistake but the receipt that was given out did show that she should have had £170.
    A large sign on the cash point (generic, no bank advertisements on it) stated that the Co-op was not responsible for the machine and to ring the number in the bottom corner of the cash point if there were any problems. Wife tried to phone the 0800 number, went through several options to be told they were only open Mon-Fri 9-5.
    Sunday morning she logged into her First Direct internet account, her statement did show that £170 had been deducted from her account. So she made a phone call to them and explained what had happened. She was told that this sometimes happens when a cashpoint runs out of money and that the money is usually refunded within 48hrs. First Direct said they would open their own investigation but could take up to 28 days.
    Anyway, on Monday morning she rang the cash points 0800 number and got through to talk to someone. They confirmed that the machine had not run out of money and that £170 had been taken out of the machine. As far as they were concerned that was the end of the matter and offered to put her through to her bank.
    So she spoke again to First Direct and they have said they will do a Link-check (or something like that) and just said it would take time.
    Anyway, sorry for the long-winded post, this isn't a small amount of money for our family to lose. It has really bugged me how it's our word vs the cash machine operators and I cannot see how First Direct will be able to get a refund out of them.
    Has anyone any idea who else I could escalate my concerns to, I really don't want to lose the £50 and would like to put in a complaint against the cash machine operator.
    Any ideas gratefully received! Cheers.
Page 1
  • National Debtline
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    Hi geewcee,


    Was there a camera by the cash point or any other CCTV that you may be able to request a video of? This may help, but, the downside would be that to get the footage may also take time (sorry, that does seem to be the problem). The footage could be requested under a Subject Access Request, but that would potentially cost £10 and they have 40 days to comply.


    You could try complaining to the cash machine operator again, and even argue this is a matter of public interest and people need to be made aware of this immediately, otherwise other people may lose money. Perhaps try talking to your bank account and ask them what other reasons a cash machine may malfunction? Is there anyway to find out whether anyone else that day (after your wife used the machine) had a similar issue?


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • geewcee
    • By geewcee 14th Jun 17, 1:23 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    geewcee
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 1:23 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 1:23 PM
    I can go and visit the cashpoint again, later on, to check for CCTV. Not sure how it would show she was short changed though?
    I've already made a post on our local neighbourhood Facebook page warning people not to use the cash point.
    Could this be a police matter, if First Directs investigation draws a blank and we simply have to accept a £50 loss, does that mean the machine must have been tampered with?
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 14th Jun 17, 1:37 PM
    • 18,541 Posts
    • 14,265 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 1:37 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 1:37 PM
    Forget what Laura said, I doubt very much if she has any expertise in either ATM operation or access to CCTV.

    Also forget about talking to the ATM owner, that's not your responsibility. The correct course of action is to speak to your card issuer, First Direct, and allow them to investigate. They may see the issue quite quickly and refund you themselves, or they may ask for the ATM to be balanced, but you have to let them do these things. It could take a few days but the vast majority of issues of this sort are resolved to the customer's satisfaction.
    • geewcee
    • By geewcee 14th Jun 17, 3:12 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    geewcee
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 3:12 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 3:12 PM
    Thankyou agrinnall I am just a little anxious as its a lot for us to lose. But I will have a little patience and see what First Direct turn up for us.
    Cheers.
    • mistakehappens
    • By mistakehappens 14th Jun 17, 4:33 PM
    • 71 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    mistakehappens
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 4:33 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 4:33 PM
    hi

    it also happened to me sometime back when i tried withdrawing £500 from the first direct card, the ATM machine whirred and made some noises but nothing came out. Upon speaking to first direct they asked if i needed the money badly or can wait to which i replied yes, They allowed me to withdraw another £500 from a different cash machine even though i didn't have that much in my account as the first withdrawal was also showing up on their account. After a week or so i had a call from them to say the ATM was faulty and i won't be charged for the withdrawal when nothing came out of the machine. So i guess you will be allright as first direct are good in matters like this.
    • takman
    • By takman 14th Jun 17, 6:04 PM
    • 2,812 Posts
    • 2,353 Thanks
    takman
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:04 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:04 PM
    Obviously this won't help you now but she should consider getting a prepaid card with no fees such as a Monzo Card.

    This could be topped up with £170 weekly using the app and then she wouldn't have to worry about using a cash machine. She can then make all her purchases using the card and it will help you to see exactly where the money is being spent. You may even then be able to use this information to cut down on some things or budget better if you don't have much spare money.
    • geewcee
    • By geewcee 14th Jun 17, 6:18 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    geewcee
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:18 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:18 PM
    Thanks Takman and mistakeshappen. That Monzo card sounds interesting.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 14th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
    • 24,168 Posts
    • 11,444 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
    Let First direct investigate - if you said that the £50 short meant that you would be in financial difficulty - they should have refunded you first and asked questions afterwards.

    Perhaps they are not as good customer service wise that they think they are.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 15th Jun 17, 6:20 AM
    • 2,070 Posts
    • 911 Thanks
    Ben8282
    Thanks Takman and mistakeshappen. That Monzo card sounds interesting.
    Originally posted by geewcee

    No don't confuse your life with prepaid Monzo cards and apps. Has your wife had problems before? No. So because of this isolated incident don't go getting a prepaid Monzo card and using the app to upload £170 per-week then going to the ATM and using the Monzo card to withdraw the cash. Why should this reduce the possibility of a future occurrence of the problem? Why should Monzo deal with the problem, should it occur, any better or differently than First Direct?
    And if she wants to use the card for purchases, why not just use her debit card?
    Even better, apply for a proper credit card, use it for purchases, pay in full each month and keep the £170 per-week in the bank earning interest.
    • Chalkius
    • By Chalkius 15th Jun 17, 8:26 AM
    • 97 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Chalkius
    Make sure you speak to your bank if it doesn't return by itself, they should be able to do a full investigation for you, and if they can see you were indeed £50 short, they should get it back for you.

    When they referred to a 'Link-Check', the vast majority if not all ATM's in the UK are on the Link network, so that's what they'll be talking about.
    • takman
    • By takman 15th Jun 17, 9:42 AM
    • 2,812 Posts
    • 2,353 Thanks
    takman
    No don't confuse your life with prepaid Monzo cards and apps. Has your wife had problems before? No. So because of this isolated incident don't go getting a prepaid Monzo card and using the app to upload £170 per-week then going to the ATM and using the Monzo card to withdraw the cash. Why should this reduce the possibility of a future occurrence of the problem? Why should Monzo deal with the problem, should it occur, any better or differently than First Direct?
    And if she wants to use the card for purchases, why not just use her debit card?
    Even better, apply for a proper credit card, use it for purchases, pay in full each month and keep the £170 per-week in the bank earning interest.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    She obviously takes the £170 out in cash so that she has a weekly budget and knows how much she has left exactly to spend on groceries and petrol.

    So by topping up a prepaid card such as Monzo then she will know exactly how much money she has and she won't have to worry about carrying cash. Most shops accepts cards so its unlikely she would have to withdraw cash from the Monzo card.
    On Monzo the balance is updated on the App immediately after every purchase so you can see exactly how much has been spent and it also categorises spending which helps with budgeting.

    The reason she doesn't use her debit card for purchases is because she wants to spend a set budget each week. Alot of people who take out cash to use for budgeting don't like the fact that debit and credit card transactions don't immediately show up on their accounts. So they are more likely to overspend without knowing because they can't keep track of it in their head.
    • Pickle Lily
    • By Pickle Lily 15th Jun 17, 3:48 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Pickle Lily
    Another option is to open a basic savings account (not the FD regular saver). Transfer your monthly spending budget into. Then once a week you can transfer your weekly spending budget into your current account and spend on the debit card.


    First direct has a transactions pending section on the mobile app so it's easy to check if you have transactions that haven't cleared yet.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Jun 17, 3:57 PM
    • 5,783 Posts
    • 5,663 Thanks
    eskbanker
    First direct has a transactions pending section on the mobile app so it's easy to check if you have transactions that haven't cleared yet.
    Originally posted by Pickle Lily
    Unfortunately it isn't practical to rely on any bank's pending transactions data, as this inherently omits any transactions authorised offline by retailers, because the bank doesn't know anything about these until the merchant submits the transactions for settlement.

    There have been many threads on here started by anguished posters who've spent money believing that 'available balances' based on such information are accurate but finding out the hard way that they're not.
    • chrisw99
    • By chrisw99 16th Jun 17, 10:58 AM
    • 173 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    chrisw99
    Do these machines ever give out £50 notes? I've heard of occasions where a single note is missing, but to be £50 short would mean at least 3 notes were missing which is very unusual, unless it was empty.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 16th Jun 17, 11:40 AM
    • 7,152 Posts
    • 8,806 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    Do these machines ever give out £50 notes? I've heard of occasions where a single note is missing, but to be £50 short would mean at least 3 notes were missing which is very unusual, unless it was empty.
    Originally posted by chrisw99
    You just need one note getting stuck in the rollers before dispense to stop all those behind it coming out.
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