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  • FIRST POST
    • Cuilean
    • By Cuilean 14th Jun 17, 9:28 AM
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    Cuilean
    Safest way to refund a cash on collection item?
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:28 AM
    Safest way to refund a cash on collection item? 14th Jun 17 at 9:28 AM
    Last week, we sold a fully working dishwasher for £5, collection only. Buyer arrived, paid cash, drove away. As there was no PayPal transaction, we marked the dishwasher as payment received.

    This morning, he's sent a very disgruntled email, saying it's burned out, and his entire kitchen smells of smoke. He wants a refund.

    Given the fact he lives an hour away, and he doesn't sound too happy just now, driving to his house to give him his £5 is not my preferred option. I'd rather keep any future communication short and to the point, and any refund traceable. What's the safest way to refund him?
    © Cuilean 2005. Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
Page 1
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 14th Jun 17, 9:32 AM
    • 11,178 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:32 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:32 AM
    I wouldn't refund purely and simply because it was a cash on collection item and you don't have anything other than his word that it's burned out.

    If you want to refund the safest way is by cash. If you refund by a way that leaves a paper trail he may decide he wants to pursue you for damage to his kitchen and your refund may be seen as admission of the problem.
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 14th Jun 17, 9:42 AM
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    ballisticbrian
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:42 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:42 AM
    Agreed, it doesn't sound like a lot of money but you have to think of the legal side.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 14th Jun 17, 3:19 PM
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    forgotmyname
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 3:19 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 17, 3:19 PM
    Tell them to bring it back and then refund them.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Tealblue
    • By Tealblue 14th Jun 17, 5:02 PM
    • 660 Posts
    • 1,023 Thanks
    Tealblue
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:02 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:02 PM
    Tell them to bring it back and then refund them.
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    Hardly the position you want to be in if he does that - you were trying to get rid of the blessed thing! I'd message him via ebay and say that the dishwasher was in good working order at the time it was sold and you cannot accept responsibility once it left your premises.
    • Cuilean
    • By Cuilean 14th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
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    Cuilean
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
    Thank you everyone for your replies. I had not even considered the fact that refunding would legally look like an admission of guilt.

    I spoke to eBay support and they have confirmed that cash on collection listings are "Buyer Beware". The buyer had the chance to inspect the item and decide whether to proceed with the purchase. As Tealblue pointed out, it worked when we sold it, and we can't accept responsibility for what happens after it's out of our possession.

    In addition to that, since he paid cash on collection, the eBay Moneyback Guarantee can't be applied in this instance, so he won't even have the option to open a returns case from his account.

    eBay's advice was that if we were to contact him, it would just be to say that returns are not accepted. I'd like to think that for the sake of £5, I'm not going to find a Moneyclaim appearing in my inbox, or him appearing on my doorstep since it would cost him significantly more than £5 in petrol. He's already left positive feedback, so he can't even sting us that way.

    Of course, this is eBay, and I've learned that they interpret their own rules differently every single day, so entirely possible that I haven't heard the last of this
    © Cuilean 2005. Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
    • Auntie-Dolly
    • By Auntie-Dolly 14th Jun 17, 7:28 PM
    • 956 Posts
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    Auntie-Dolly
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:28 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:28 PM
    Can't you just send him £5 via PayPal or bank transfer? Hardly worth making an issue out of it.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 14th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
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    theonlywayisup
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    Can't you just send him £5 via PayPal or bank transfer? Hardly worth making an issue out of it.
    Originally posted by Auntie-Dolly
    Did you read the thread? It isn't the £5, perhaps it is?
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 14th Jun 17, 11:18 PM
    • 910 Posts
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    angryparcel
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 11:18 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 11:18 PM
    This morning, he's sent a very disgruntled email, saying it's burned out, and his entire kitchen smells of smoke.
    Originally posted by Cuilean
    Was it freestanding or integrated?
    as the issue could be the way he fitted it in his property.

    What was he expecting for £5. A top of the range new dishwasher with a 12 month warranty.

    He purchased a COC item which he had a chance to inspect before purchase, so Sold as Seen.
    He has no comebacks
    • RFW
    • By RFW 15th Jun 17, 12:32 PM
    • 8,475 Posts
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    RFW
    Was it freestanding or integrated?
    as the issue could be the way he fitted it in his property.

    What was he expecting for £5. A top of the range new dishwasher with a 12 month warranty.

    He purchased a COC item which he had a chance to inspect before purchase, so Sold as Seen.
    He has no comebacks
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    I agree but sometimes it isn't worth the hassle of standing your ground.

    There's some grey areas here as far as I know. If it was sold as something that could be used again and it did have a fault then the seller can be liable. If it was sold as 'spares/repair' then it's the buyer's problem.

    I don't think sending £5 is an admission of guilt/responsibility.

    I think what I may do would be to buy a £5 postal order, keep the order number and post it to him. Stick a note in saying "with compliments, sorry there was a problem after you fitted it" or words to that effect. If you're worried about legal requirements ask CAB or a solicitor (some have free drop in sessions). They may suggest you add "ex gratia" or "without prejudice", although I often think that adding legal terms gives people ideas that they can go to court.

    Most firms charge £15+ to take a broken dishwasher/washing machine away so think of it as being £10 up.

    We recently moved and I brought my old dishwasher with, I unknowingly damaged it in transit and almost flooded the kitchen after I'd fitted it. There's lots of ways things can go wrong, so it wouldn't be so cut and dried who's fault it was. I doubt, if it went to court, that a judge would look favourably on someone paying £5 for a dishwasher and not having it tested before fitting it. Your refund, should you go ahead with it, would more likely put you in a good light than be evidence of you admitting culpability.
    .
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 16th Jun 17, 10:24 PM
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    mgdavid
    I agree but sometimes it isn't worth the hassle of standing your ground.

    There's some grey areas here as far as I know. If it was sold as something that could be used again and it did have a fault then the seller can be liable. If it was sold as 'spares/repair' then it's the buyer's problem.

    I don't think sending £5 is an admission of guilt/responsibility.

    I think what I may do would be to buy a £5 postal order, keep the order number and post it to him. Stick a note in saying "with compliments, sorry there was a problem after you fitted it" or words to that effect. If you're worried about legal requirements ask CAB or a solicitor (some have free drop in sessions). They may suggest you add "ex gratia" or "without prejudice", although I often think that adding legal terms gives people ideas that they can go to court.

    Most firms charge £15+ to take a broken dishwasher/washing machine away so think of it as being £10 up.

    We recently moved and I brought my old dishwasher with, I unknowingly damaged it in transit and almost flooded the kitchen after I'd fitted it. There's lots of ways things can go wrong, so it wouldn't be so cut and dried who's fault it was. I doubt, if it went to court, that a judge would look favourably on someone paying £5 for a dishwasher and not having it tested before fitting it. Your refund, should you go ahead with it, would more likely put you in a good light than be evidence of you admitting culpability.
    Originally posted by RFW

    have you read the whole thread? (apparently not).
    Ebay COC items are 'buyer beware' and there is absolutely no reason for a seller to refund in this situation.
    A salary slave no more.....
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 17th Jun 17, 2:20 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    parking_question_chap
    Sounds fishy to me, they buy a cheap dishwasher and want to get a refund on the £5. Sounds like this might be a precursor to a fake damages claim if you admit to guilt by refunding.

    Say it was sold as working, and you will not be refunding.

    As somebody else said, if he wanted a guarantee he should have gone to a shop.
    • Tealblue
    • By Tealblue 17th Jun 17, 2:53 PM
    • 660 Posts
    • 1,023 Thanks
    Tealblue
    I agree but sometimes it isn't worth the hassle of standing your ground.

    There's some grey areas here as far as I know. If it was sold as something that could be used again and it did have a fault then the seller can be liable. If it was sold as 'spares/repair' then it's the buyer's problem.

    I don't think sending £5 is an admission of guilt/responsibility.

    I think what I may do would be to buy a £5 postal order, keep the order number and post it to him. Stick a note in saying "with compliments, sorry there was a problem after you fitted it" or words to that effect. If you're worried about legal requirements ask CAB or a solicitor (some have free drop in sessions). They may suggest you add "ex gratia" or "without prejudice", although I often think that adding legal terms gives people ideas that they can go to court.

    Most firms charge £15+ to take a broken dishwasher/washing machine away so think of it as being £10 up.

    We recently moved and I brought my old dishwasher with, I unknowingly damaged it in transit and almost flooded the kitchen after I'd fitted it. There's lots of ways things can go wrong, so it wouldn't be so cut and dried who's fault it was. I doubt, if it went to court, that a judge would look favourably on someone paying £5 for a dishwasher and not having it tested before fitting it. Your refund, should you go ahead with it, would more likely put you in a good light than be evidence of you admitting culpability.
    Originally posted by RFW
    Sometimes you can overthink an issue...there's no requirement to refund and no advantage to doing so. The idea of taking legal advice over whether or not to refund a fiver is way OTT! Just leave it be and let the seller do whatever they want to do - it won't get them very far.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 18th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
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    theoretica
    If I were in the buyer's position, I would be more miffed at the seller profiting from the sale than by the loss of a fiver. How about an apology (so sorry the dishwasher didn't work once you got it home, I wouldn't have sold it if I had any idea it would do that) and a suggestion that you pass the fiver to charity as you don't have a paypal payment to refund?
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 19th Jun 17, 9:20 AM
    • 3,144 Posts
    • 1,810 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    It may be a case of, "right now you've refunded my money, you can take it to the tip at your expense and pay the white goods disposal to the recycling centre"
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
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