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    • JKS5
    • By JKS5 13th Jun 17, 4:58 PM
    • 9Posts
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    JKS5
    Financial Assessment
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 4:58 PM
    Financial Assessment 13th Jun 17 at 4:58 PM
    Hi All,

    If this is not the correct forum, please can a mod move it, it seemed the most appropriate.

    Im hoping someone can explain how the local council / DWP conduct financial assessments.

    Please stay with my while I try to explain......

    Mother terminally ill in hospital, father taken into hospital at the same time due to dementia.

    After 5 days in hospital father was then transferred into respite care in a local authority home. When this happened the social worker dealing with him made no mention of there being any costs associated with this and we thought it was NHS care.

    Now we have had a letter asking for a financial assessment and stating care costs may need to be paid and if he has savings of just over £23k he would have to pay the full costs.

    Now my father has very modest savings well below that, but his only account is a joint one with my mother. My mother has in the past received 2 separate inheritances into the joint account which have then been mostly moved to an ISA in her sole name over the last 12 months when I started helping with her affairs.

    This makes it appear as though the money was theirs but was solely my mothers and the total amount put them as a couple just a little above the £23K, As they have been asked for bank statements going back 12 months, this may look like my father had money.

    Is the £23K allowance joint or per person? Will they look at the inheritances as joint, even though wills can be shown to prove it was left just to my mother? They have both been employed most of their working lives until retirement age, there is no property owned.

    Thanks for any help.
Page 1
    • venison
    • By venison 13th Jun 17, 5:58 PM
    • 933 Posts
    • 979 Thanks
    venison
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:58 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:58 PM
    Its a minefield, personally I would contact AGE UK for help and advice they are excellent.
    #WeStandTogether
    • w06
    • By w06 13th Jun 17, 6:03 PM
    • 209 Posts
    • 295 Thanks
    w06
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 6:03 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 6:03 PM
    The default would be to consider 50% of the joint savings account as his, this explains http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS39_Paying_for_care_in_a_care_home_if_you_have_a_ partner_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Jun 17, 6:55 PM
    • 21,603 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 6:55 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 6:55 PM
    The money in your mother's sole name is hers - has she made a will?

    It is likely that half the money in the joint account would be regarded as your father's.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 13th Jun 17, 7:02 PM
    • 3,551 Posts
    • 3,624 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 7:02 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 7:02 PM
    The money in your mother's sole name is hers

    It is likely that half the money in the joint account would be regarded as your father's.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    I wouldn't be so certain with the first statement. The mother of a friend of ours put her house into a trust for the grand-children many years ago. She had to go into care about 2 years ago and the local council are fighting to get the trust overturned. If they can do that, I'm sure they will look very closely at monies put into the ISA 12 months ago if it looks like depriving them of payment.
    • tibbers
    • By tibbers 14th Jun 17, 4:40 PM
    • 73 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    tibbers
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 4:40 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 4:40 PM
    we are going through this at the moment.
    First of, when your father entered the home, he gets 12 weeks free.
    After then, thats when the financial assessors come into play.
    While your mother is alive, they will only account for half of what is any joint account in his and her names. Any other accounts in his sole name will be taken into account also. Forgot to mention, when mother passes, all her money will then be passed straight to father, so it then becomes all his asset and will be taken into consideration. The property that they live/lived in, will be taken into account, but only when it is empty. If your mother was to be still living there, then it would be exempt.
    If your father is funding himself he will be entitled to Attendance Allowance.
    Also check to see if he is eligible for Nursing Fund Care or Continuing Health Care.
    We have just submitted our financial assessment, and will be fighting to keep the house of my parents. They did a deed of trust and transfered the house over to my husband and his sister last year, so they are preparing for a fight!
    Hope this helps you x
    • JKS5
    • By JKS5 14th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    JKS5
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    The money in your mother's sole name is hers - has she made a will?

    It is likely that half the money in the joint account would be regarded as your father's.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    She has made a will an my father is not a beneficiary. I do not know how this works in relation to the assessment.

    we are going through this at the moment.
    First of, when your father entered the home, he gets 12 weeks free.
    After then, thats when the financial assessors come into play.
    While your mother is alive, they will only account for half of what is any joint account in his and her names. Any other accounts in his sole name will be taken into account also. Forgot to mention, when mother passes, all her money will then be passed straight to father, so it then becomes all his asset and will be taken into consideration. The property that they live/lived in, will be taken into account, but only when it is empty. If your mother was to be still living there, then it would be exempt.
    If your father is funding himself he will be entitled to Attendance Allowance.
    Also check to see if he is eligible for Nursing Fund Care or Continuing Health Care.
    We have just submitted our financial assessment, and will be fighting to keep the house of my parents. They did a deed of trust and transfered the house over to my husband and his sister last year, so they are preparing for a fight!
    Hope this helps you x
    Originally posted by tibbers
    As above, mother has made a will in which my father is NOT a beneficiary, so I hope that it will not pass to him in the eyes of any Assessment. There is no property owned.

    As for 12 weeks free, not here, they want minimum amount from day one an if funded this will still be payable (approx £135 a week), this may go up after assessment.

    Despite the mounting costs, the social won't allocate a social worker for at least another month, the placement he is in is not good for his mental health so I am trying to put things together privately to get him home until he can be assessed, his needs are not that great an it seems I can obtain this at a lower cost.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    • 15,497 Posts
    • 38,852 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:18 PM
    As above, mother has made a will in which my father is NOT a beneficiary, so I hope that it will not pass to him in the eyes of any Assessment.
    Really? So he couldn't chose a better care home with any funds of his, instead, he can do with local authority care so that you can benefit from her savings.

    Gosh, I would be angry if either of my parents did this and certainly wouldn't want the money, it would go so my other parent gets the best care they can get.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 14th Jun 17, 7:24 PM
    • 14,730 Posts
    • 20,908 Thanks
    antrobus
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:24 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 17, 7:24 PM
    I wouldn't be so certain with the first statement. The mother of a friend of ours put her house into a trust for the grand-children many years ago. She had to go into care about 2 years ago and the local council are fighting to get the trust overturned. If they can do that, I'm sure they will look very closely at monies put into the ISA 12 months ago if it looks like depriving them of payment.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Yes, but in this case it is claimed that the "monies put into the ISA 12 months ago" belonged to the mother. And it is the father that is subject to the means test for residential care.

    The AgeUK guidance on the topic states that "Deprivation of assets means you have intentionally decreased your overall assets in order to reduce the amount you are cha rged towards the cost of care services provided by your local authority." I'm not sure that it applies to what someone else does with their assets.

    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/deprivation-of-assets-in-the-means-test-for-care-home-provision/
    • JKS5
    • By JKS5 15th Jun 17, 7:33 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    JKS5
    Really? So he couldn't chose a better care home with any funds of his, instead, he can do with local authority care so that you can benefit from her savings.

    Gosh, I would be angry if either of my parents did this and certainly wouldn't want the money, it would go so my other parent gets the best care they can get.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Sweeping statements like this are uncalled for when you do not know the circumstances of how my parents lived.

    You are also making the assumption that I am a beneficiary.

    There is no question that my fathers best interests won't be addressed.
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