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  • FIRST POST
    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 13th Jun 17, 2:40 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 18Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    Parking Eye Darlington v Disabled Owner
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:40 PM
    Parking Eye Darlington v Disabled Owner 13th Jun 17 at 2:40 PM
    In August 2016 my car was parked in a disabled bay in Darlington, when visiting a local restaurant. I am a severely disabled partially sighted Army veteran and the vehicle is a motability vehicle.

    We believed that the bay was free of charge as the signs seemed to indicate this, before parking the driver stopped the vehicle to read the terms and conditions but it was unable to do so, as it was both raining and the wording was so small.

    The vehicle was parked for two hours and no other vehicle was in the car park.

    Upon receipt of the PCN £100 i appealed to the company explaining the above and my situation but this was regected.

    I then ended up having a Popla appeal which was strangely rejected as further evidence to rebut their claims was not allowed and no reason was given.

    The next letter was a LBCCC which I received was in March 2017, I again rebutted their claims and asked for numerous clarifications to be addressed, such as how many vehicles in total parked,when Anpr was installed, when last calibrated etc. I received no response from them.

    On 16 May and 5 June 2017 I received a letter from EQUITA telling me that as I was the keeper of the vehicle I was responsible for the outstanding amount which was now £160. Unless I resolved this a recommendation would be to take me to court. They further quoted Beavis v parking eye.

    It is my honest belief that I have done no wrong and am being targeted by these people as I am disabled and an easy touch.

    I could do with some advise as it looks like I'm going to court, I have attached some photos showing my concerns in the hope that help can be obtained.

    It seems I can't attach photos due to being a newbie sorry.
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jun 17, 3:01 PM
    • 33,258 Posts
    • 17,192 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 3:01 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 3:01 PM
    They aren't picking on you because you are disabled. You fell into their trap and they processed you just like all their other victims irrespective of your health etc

    Read up in the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum on court procedure and preparing a defence.

    If you do end up with a court claim come back with your defence for comments
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jun 17, 4:32 PM
    • 15,514 Posts
    • 24,237 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 4:32 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 4:32 PM
    Having Equita involved is relatively good news for you. If ParkingEye are going to take people to court they do so immediately. I've never seen a PE case where they've gone through a process of (unsuccessful) debt collection and then moved into court phase.

    We believe that where a debt collector is involved in a PE case, either PE are on shaky ground (maybe their signage isn't up to scratch on the particular site) or the landowner has specifically said that they are not prepared to allow PE to take their customers to court - or maybe other reasons.

    So the advice is that where debt collectors are involved (whichever parking company is chasing) you ignore anything from them, they cannot do anything other than send letters. You just need to keep an eye out for any court papers that do come through from the PPC.

    ParkingEye are part of the CAPITA group. Guess which group Equita are part of (check small print on their letter to you - or Google)?

    While I can't give you an absolute guarantee, my sense is this isn't going much further. We will help if I'm proved wrong.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    • 40,477 Posts
    • 80,859 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    I'm with Umkomaas on this one. The cases we have seen where Equita get involved are usually as said where there something is wrong with the PCN and parking lie don't want this revealed in court, so keep bullying the motorist instead.
    One of the reasons in addition to those above mentioned by Umkomaas is if they don't know who the driver is, and the NTK does not meet the requirements of the POFA 2012 so liability cannot be transferred to the keeper.

    If you never gave away the driver's identity, keep it that way.

    Ignore debt collectors. Don't ignore real court papers fro the parking scammers.

    You can post redacted images by uploading them to a web hosting site such as tinypic, or dropbox, or photobucket, then paste the image URLs here, but change http to hxxp. Someone here will change them back to a live link.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-06-2017 at 5:02 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 13th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    Thank you for your comments, I have not revealed who the driver is and will let you know if they do pursue me to court.
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jun 17, 5:15 PM
    • 16,540 Posts
    • 20,699 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:15 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 5:15 PM
    a landholder complaint citing the EA2010 may also bear fruit

    also warn them BOTH about counter action by you under the EA2010
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 13th Jun 17, 6:59 PM
    • 10,202 Posts
    • 9,347 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 6:59 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 6:59 PM
    You have to host your photos on tinypics or similar and give us a link.

    Be aware that many private car parks have no free parking for disabled drivers and many disabled drivers tend to assume free parking as this is most common.

    If this gets to court and they have charging for disabled drivers, then your main defence plank will be the notices, so we need to see them. Obviously there are the technical points in the Newbies thread and the actual make up of the current charge, but get these photos of the signs.
    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 13th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    Thanks for the advice, hope these photos get to you[IMG]hxxp://www.photobox.co.uk/album/4896048331[/IMG]
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 17, 8:26 PM
    • 51,532 Posts
    • 65,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 8:26 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 8:26 PM
    Black on a red background makes the 'no concessions for Blue Badge Holders' impossible to read at that height.

    Breaches the BPA CoP - signs must be readable from a driver's seat without the disabled person having to get out of the car.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 13th Jun 17, 10:45 PM
    • 10,202 Posts
    • 9,347 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    You might want to refer to this or any other link that covers Le Courier legibility table

    https://www.coursehero.com/file/p1rf2et/23-Le-Courier-Color-Legibility-Chart-Order-of-Legibility-Print-Color-Background/

    Black on red, as c-m says, is not a good combination.
    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 13th Jun 17, 11:43 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    Thanks for that guys to be honest didn't even see the black on red when the car was parked as it was pouring with rain. Do you think the contract terms located at the bottom of the signs is poor, the driver really couldn't read them and only saw the sign for disabled parking bays.

    Which could hardly be seen as they were painted over, i have significant mental health issues as a result of my 20 years service and feel that they have had a detrimental affect On my health.

    I even told them that I was having reconstructive surgery on my leg, asking for some form of compassion on this occasion, but they refused.

    As I type I'm still in plaster, makes me sick that I've been treated so appallingly.
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 17, 7:41 PM
    • 51,532 Posts
    • 65,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do you think the contract terms located at the bottom of the signs is poor
    Yes.

    And your medical conditions mean you ARE a protected person under the definition of disability in the Equality Act 2010, which of course does NOT require disabled people to 'prove it' with a Council badge that has no application on private land.

    You had as much right to park in a disabled bay as anyone, and could not read the terms in the rain on an unlit, high red/black sign with no 'white space' around the words about 'no concessions' to disabled people (whatever that actually means - arguably ambiguous in itself).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 14th Jun 17, 8:34 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    Thank you guys makes me feel better knowing that if they do intend to take courts action I at least can raise a defence against them.
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Jun 17, 8:37 PM
    • 15,514 Posts
    • 24,237 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thank you guys
    Not every regular is a guy. Our top contributor is a gal.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 14th Jun 17, 10:41 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    Not every regular is a guy. Our top contributor is a gal.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Nothing meant by it, I am sure there are many outstanding ladies contributing to all forums.
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 17, 10:47 PM
    • 51,532 Posts
    • 65,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    LoadsofChildren123 is also female but we have some fantastic male regulars here too (including Umkomaas). The similarity is, we all want to fight this scam and win every case v PPC scum.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Thunderpants1817
    • By Thunderpants1817 24th Jun 17, 11:56 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Thunderpants1817
    Update
    Hi All

    Today Saturday I received a further letter from EQUITA stating the following: We note that despite our previous efforts to contact you this matter remains outstanding and the debt of £160 is still due. (It was £60)

    Our efforts to resolve this matter on behalf of our client have been unsuccessful and we will be referring this back to Parking Eye with our recommendation that they proceed with additional Enforcement/litigation action.

    If you wish to avoid action escalating you need to contact our office within the next 7 days.

    We trust you understand the seriousness of the situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So from a £60 fine it is now £160 not bad work if you can get it. Do I still do nothing and wait for them to issue proceedings?

    I so want to send them a blast across their bows but understand I'm opening myself up.
    Best Regards
    Thunderpants
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 24th Jun 17, 12:07 PM
    • 33,258 Posts
    • 17,192 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes do nothing about that letter


    follow the advice in #3 re.ignoring/when to respond


    Any shot at them will be to your detriment as they "love" to know they have something on their hook!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Jun 17, 12:10 PM
    • 6,347 Posts
    • 8,150 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Hi All

    Today Saturday I received a further letter from EQUITA stating the following: We note that despite our previous efforts to contact you this matter remains outstanding and the debt of £160 is still due. (It was £60)

    Our efforts to resolve this matter on behalf of our client have been unsuccessful and we will be referring this back to Parking Eye with our recommendation that they proceed with additional Enforcement/litigation action.

    If you wish to avoid action escalating you need to contact our office within the next 7 days.

    We trust you understand the seriousness of the situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So from a £60 fine it is now £160 not bad work if you can get it. Do I still do nothing and wait for them to issue proceedings?


    I so want to send them a blast across their bows but understand I'm opening myself up.
    Originally posted by Thunderpants1817
    A debt collector letter only working on behalf of PE

    "we will be referring this back to Parking Eye"
    That is all they can do as this belongs to PE ... Not them.

    Just wait to see what happens, if PE decide to go further you will get court papers and that's when you come back here.

    And as a footnote ....
    "that they proceed with additional Enforcement/litigation action."

    in laymans language that PE might take you to court where it
    then becomes 50/50 if they win.
    There is no enforcement unless you lose and ignore the court
    to pay then and only then can they enforce.

    See how scary these letters are but when it comes down
    to reality, these letters contain rubbish

    "We trust you understand the seriousness of the situation"
    How stupid, it's only a stupid parking ticket
    Last edited by beamerguy; 24-06-2017 at 12:18 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 24th Jun 17, 12:53 PM
    • 3,839 Posts
    • 5,411 Thanks
    Half_way
    have you complained to the landowner, stating the equality act?
    if not then it's vital that you do so, as if you want to use it in your defence should it get that far, or use it as a basis for a counter claim, you need to take all reasonable steps to inform them of their error, and allow them to correct their mistakes.
    you can't just pounce on them with the EA
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
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