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  • FIRST POST
    • rentmekid
    • By rentmekid 13th Jun 17, 2:36 PM
    • 47Posts
    • 25Thanks
    rentmekid
    landlord bashing
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:36 PM
    landlord bashing 13th Jun 17 at 2:36 PM
    After reading a number of posts/replies on this forum, I have noticed that many people hate the idea of someone owning more than 1 property and renting out.


    Frequent comments are: "people cant afford to buy one property, why should you have 2", or similar.


    At the end of the day, a private landlord is providing a similar service to the housing association, so why the hatred, or is it jealousy?


    Also, its not the Landlords fault that someone cant afford a house.


    Are my view justified?
Page 6
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 12:13 PM
    • 14,354 Posts
    • 12,697 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I think it's fair to discount social sector units
    Originally posted by LdnFtB
    Suffice to say that 80% of 1 bed flats and 50% of 2 bed flats are owned by landlords
    Originally posted by LdnFtB
    Can you see the difference...?

    You're instantly discarding up to 40-odd% of the total housing stock in each category... Yet we're constantly told that "Social housing is rocking horse"... No, it isn't. It's just that security of tenure makes it available rarely, and demand outstrips supply. Where is that demand coming from, if not from people who are currently in the private rental market, and not able or willing to look at ownership?

    Going off table AT2.2 of the second annex of the English Housing Survey the ownership distributions for private sector properties are as follows:

    1 Bed 1 Person Studio/Flat: 22% Owner Occupier / 78% Landlord
    1 Bed 2 Person Studio/Flat: 39% Owner Occupier / 61% Landlord
    1x single is only 6% of all 1x bed properties.
    Private rental is 31% of all 1x bed, and 62% of all private sector 1x bed.
    That's a BIG difference from "80% of all"...

    2 Bed 3 Person Flat/House: 60% Owner Occupier / 40% Landlord
    2 bed 4 Person Flat/House: 63% Owner Occupier / 37% Landlord
    Again, they're not two equal-size categories, although they're less uneven than 1x bed.

    About 42% of all private-sector 2x bed are private rental. Some way short of the 50% figure...

    However I do think that the distribution does demonstrate that landlords own a) the majority of private sector 1 bed units and b) over a third of private sector 2 bed units.
    Agreed with that - but that's not the same thing as the original claim of "80%/50% of all", is it?

    These are the types of properties which my rightmove continually tells me are 'ideal for first time buyers' and then also adds in 'or investors'. in my mind this quite clearly demonstrates that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same housing stock.
    Bear in mind many of the "or investors" properties will just not be suitable for any mortgage buyers - there's a variety of reasons for that, but they are often simply unmortgageable for some reason, usually relating to leases or commercial property restrictions. It doesn't matter whether that's a BtL buyer or a potential owner-occupier.

    Equally, many properties are unavailable to potential landlords, because of lease restrictions on lettings - which can also dissuade potential owner-occupiers, because they think they may wish to let out as and when they move on in the future.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 14th Jun 17, 12:17 PM
    • 4,203 Posts
    • 1,980 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    http://news.sky.com/story/applications-from-eu-nurses-to-work-in-uk-down-96-since-brexit-vote-10913295


    The supply of people up for paying 750 p.m for a dodgy flat is dwindling, just wait til they cut benefits for EU nationals......
    • LdnFtB
    • By LdnFtB 14th Jun 17, 12:52 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    LdnFtB
    Agreed with that - but that's not the same thing as the original claim of "80%/50% of all", is it?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    No it's not and I apologise for getting the data wrong. If I rephrased to say that ~60% of private sector 1 bed units and ~ 30% of private sector 2 bed units are owned by landlords could we agree on those figures?

    Oh I see, so this is a problem with what a company is telling you in it's marketing material. Now I understand. FTBs aren't usually buying the studio or one bed options by choice.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    It's an illustration that it's understood by the very people who are commissioned to sell these properties that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same stock.

    As to your question of choice, all of my FtB friends, colleagues and relatives have started off in 1 bed flats.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 12:54 PM
    • 14,354 Posts
    • 12,697 Thanks
    AdrianC
    No it's not and I apologise for getting the data wrong. If I rephrased to say that ~60% of private sector 1 bed units and ~ 30% of private sector 2 bed units are owned by landlords could we agree on those figures?
    Originally posted by LdnFtB
    40%, even, on the second figure.

    Now, the question arising from that is whether that's somehow a bad thing or not...
    • LdnFtB
    • By LdnFtB 14th Jun 17, 12:56 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    LdnFtB
    Now, the question arising from that is whether that's somehow a bad thing or not...
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    I think I've made my position clear
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 12:59 PM
    • 14,354 Posts
    • 12,697 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I think I've made my position clear
    Originally posted by LdnFtB
    Yes, you have. But that position was based on incorrect figures, and is still ignoring the many other issues - not least how many people actually want to be in a single-bed property for a long-enough term to be worth owning.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 14th Jun 17, 1:06 PM
    • 4,203 Posts
    • 1,980 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    All you need to know is that the government now thinks it`s bad (because voters have told them so) and are taxing accordingly to change behaviour. It wouldn`t surprise me if after the last round of voting BTL gets hit even harder.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 1:17 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    No it's not and I apologise for getting the data wrong. If I rephrased to say that ~60% of private sector 1 bed units and ~ 30% of private sector 2 bed units are owned by landlords could we agree on those figures?



    It's an illustration that it's understood by the very people who are commissioned to sell these properties that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same stock.

    As to your question of choice, all of my FtB friends, colleagues and relatives have started off in 1 bed flats.
    Originally posted by LdnFtB


    I'll correct you - everyone is in competition for the same stock.


    The reason 1 beds are owned by private landlords more often than 5 beds are - is because the market dictates that.


    Whether it's a landlord who redevelops a larger property into smaller flats. Or buys cash for properties above commercial premises. Or because most FTBs don't want to buy a studio flat.


    As for your friends etc etc. - I fail to see the relevance at all. That's dictated by your locality, its not a national picture.


    Where I live there's hardly any 1 bed flats - because no-one wants the things. Often (as I said before) the ones that come up for rent are developed from larger properties.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 2:10 PM
    • 1,168 Posts
    • 2,811 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    http://news.sky.com/story/applications-from-eu-nurses-to-work-in-uk-down-96-since-brexit-vote-10913295


    The supply of people up for paying 750 p.m for a dodgy flat is dwindling, just wait til they cut benefits for EU nationals......
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    It was a very nice flat thank you very much!
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 2:12 PM
    • 1,168 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel

    3. I don't want a fair system. I want a competitive one, where people who actually work hard and succeed are rewarded. I disagree wholeheartedly with rewarding failure.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Good luck with that!

    Some of the hardest working people I know get the least financial reward for their efforts.
    • LadyL2013
    • By LadyL2013 14th Jun 17, 2:40 PM
    • 125 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    LadyL2013
    Like I said - best rate for a 90% mortgage is 2.49%. If you're looking at a lower LtV, you may get a better rate. If you're looking at just an intro discount, then you may get a better rate, but that WILL end before you've blinked, so is very unwise to budget on... That was based on 25yrs - a longer term may give you a slightly lower payment, but a much higher total cost.

    What rates/products/term are you looking at?

    At £150k with a £120k mortgage, you'd be looking at 80% LTV - assuming you have other money for fees etc. That gets you 1.75% from Coventry BS, from the mortgage best buy page here.

    Good luck!
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Looking at Halifax 2-year fixed.




    And yes, I've kept other money aside for fees. I am well within my affordability budget, should the payments go up a couple of hundred.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 2:47 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    Good luck with that!

    Some of the hardest working people I know get the least financial reward for their efforts.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    And why do you think that is?
    • LadyL2013
    • By LadyL2013 14th Jun 17, 2:51 PM
    • 125 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    LadyL2013
    ok...


    1: some people don't want to live in your little rabbit hutch starter homes. So I think you've already made a presumption that FTB will only buy those / people will choose to rent those.


    2: Life isn't fair, whoever told you otherwise was lying to you.


    3. I don't want a fair system. I want a competitive one, where people who actually work hard and succeed are rewarded. I disagree wholeheartedly with rewarding failure.
    Originally posted by Guest101

    OK, firstly. less of the attitude.


    Secondly, for many those rabbit hutches are the only affordable property. Of course others can afford to live in larger properties, but for many, even those earning a decent wage, starter homes are the only affordable thing.


    I know life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we should seek to make it fair. You can have fair competition, in fact it's healthy. I believe strongly in a healthy economy, I just dislike the parasitic aspect of it, when it's not necessary.
    • LadyL2013
    • By LadyL2013 14th Jun 17, 2:56 PM
    • 125 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    LadyL2013
    And why do you think that is?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    That is completely ridiculous.


    People like nurses, doctors, social workers, emergency services etc work bloody hard and often don't get paid fairly for what they do. It's simply not as simple as hard work = success and being rich.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 2:58 PM
    • 1,168 Posts
    • 2,811 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    And why do you think that is?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    It's fairly obvious isn't it? As a society our values are totally skewed in terms of what we consider to be valuable and how we define 'success' so that to you somebody like the mother of a friend if mine, a hospice carer who has dedicated decades to providing comfort to people in their final days, is a failure because they haven't got loads of money and a big house.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:05 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    OK, firstly. less of the attitude. - Excuse me? - baffled why you think you can tell me what I can and cannot say. I'm not being abusive.


    Secondly, for many those rabbit hutches are the only affordable property. - That's unfortunate. Not sure why that means legislation is needed.... Of course others can afford to live in larger properties, but for many, even those earning a decent wage, starter homes are the only affordable thing. - They're not.


    I know life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we should seek to make it fair. You can have fair competition, in fact it's healthy. I believe strongly in a healthy economy, I just dislike the parasitic aspect of it, when it's not necessary.
    Originally posted by LadyL2013


    I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. No I don't think we should seek to make it fair, if that means legislation to protect everyone from everything.


    I do not want my children being wrapped in cotton wool and told that nothing bad will happen, no matter what you do, because the law will step in.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:07 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    That is completely ridiculous.


    People like nurses, doctors, social workers, emergency services etc work bloody hard and often don't get paid fairly for what they do. It's simply not as simple as hard work = success and being rich.
    Originally posted by LadyL2013


    In your opinion*...


    In what way do you think that any of those professions are badly paid? I agree that many do overtime (much of which is paid) and work very hard. They also get paid a very decent wage for that job.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:09 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    It's fairly obvious isn't it? As a society our values are totally skewed in terms of what we consider to be valuable and how we define 'success' so that to you somebody like the mother of a friend if mine, a hospice carer who has dedicated decades to providing comfort to people in their final days, is a failure because they haven't got loads of money and a big house.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    Did I say that? Or are you putting words 'in my mouth'


    If someone chooses to dedicate their life to whatever profession - eg a hospice carer, they are not a failure. But they cannot expect to be a millionaire either.


    People are responsible for the choices they make. As long as they're happy with their lot, they are not failures. If they (not me) are not happy, they should consider why that is.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 3:10 PM
    • 1,168 Posts
    • 2,811 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    In your opinion*...


    In what way do you think that any of those professions are badly paid? I agree that many do overtime (much of which is paid) and work very hard. They also get paid a very decent wage for that job.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Why don't you do it for a day (that's at least 12 or 13 hours by the way) and then tell us what you think you should be paid for your efforts?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 3:10 PM
    • 1,168 Posts
    • 2,811 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Did I say that? Or are you putting words 'in my mouth'


    If someone chooses to dedicate their life to whatever profession - eg a hospice carer, they are not a failure. But they cannot expect to be a millionaire either.


    People are responsible for the choices they make. As long as they're happy with their lot, they are not failures. If they (not me) are not happy, they should consider why that is.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    So what kind of hard work and success is it that you think should be rewarded with expensive properties?
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