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  • FIRST POST
    • toddis
    • By toddis 13th Jun 17, 2:10 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 1Thanks
    toddis
    tenant left furniture
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:10 PM
    tenant left furniture 13th Jun 17 at 2:10 PM
    My tenant text me on Friday saying ‘Had to vacate early. House is empty and keys on table. Keep deposit as part payment of what I owe’.

    I entered the property to find he left behind a skanky mattress and a skanky sofa as well as a few items of clothing in bags.

    I never replied to my tenant and I’m wondering if I should contact him giving him notice to collect his belongings OR to take his text as read.

    By his own admission, the house was empty...

    What would you do?

    For the record I did the whole S21 thing and got a possession order. He's left owing rent too....

    TIA
Page 1
    • aneary
    • By aneary 13th Jun 17, 2:14 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    aneary
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:14 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:14 PM
    Charge him the cost of removal. However make sure you provide him a break down so he can't claim back his deposit.

    I doubt he will collect his belongings if he has left early and returned the keys.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 2:21 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:21 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:21 PM
    My tenant text me on Friday saying ‘Had to vacate early. House is empty and keys on table. Keep deposit as part payment of what I owe’. - text? That's not the best thing. What if it was a friend, or his phone was lost or stolen.?

    I entered the property to find he left behind a skanky mattress and a skanky sofa as well as a few items of clothing in bags. - Otherwise in good order? Should refund the remainder of the deposit

    I never replied to my tenant and I’m wondering if I should contact him giving him notice to collect his belongings OR to take his text as read. - You MUST give him a chance to collect his belongings.

    By his own admission, the house was empty... - Well it's not.

    What would you do? - follow the law

    For the record I did the whole S21 thing and got a possession order. He's left owing rent too.... - How much?

    TIA
    Originally posted by toddis
    Need some more info
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 2:22 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:22 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:22 PM
    Charge him the cost of removal. However make sure you provide him a break down so he can't claim back his deposit.

    I doubt he will collect his belongings if he has left early and returned the keys.
    Originally posted by aneary
    It seems he left early by only a short time, since the OP got a court order for possession.
    • toddis
    • By toddis 13th Jun 17, 2:24 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    toddis
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:24 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:24 PM
    I've changed the locks.

    The last sentence in his text to me was 'keep the deposit and put it towards what I owe you'
    • aneary
    • By aneary 13th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    aneary
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    Does he owe rent as well or is just the cost of removing the furniture?
    • toddis
    • By toddis 13th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    toddis
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    Need some more info
    Originally posted by Guest101
    The text was from his number.

    The house was in an awful mess and professional cleaners are booked.

    Rent arrears is almost £5k
    • aneary
    • By aneary 13th Jun 17, 2:30 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    aneary
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:30 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:30 PM
    If you have an email address I would email him a break down of all costs including removal of furniture refer to the text he sent you as well you have then covered yourself.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 2:55 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
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    Guest101
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:55 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:55 PM
    I've changed the locks.

    The last sentence in his text to me was 'keep the deposit and put it towards what I owe you'
    Originally posted by toddis


    But when is the possession order valid from??? What if he returns, you could be technically guilty of illegal eviction
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 2:56 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    The text was from his number.

    The house was in an awful mess and professional cleaners are booked.

    Rent arrears is almost £5k
    Originally posted by toddis


    But your possession order isn't valid yet.


    He could return to do the cleaning and you could not claim for that.


    The text could be from anyone though...
    • toddis
    • By toddis 13th Jun 17, 3:07 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    toddis
    The PO was for the 12th and he left on the 9th. Maybe because he didn't want me to wave him goodbye when I collected the keys?

    He could return to do the cleaning? That made me laugh! I don't think he cleaned since moving in!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 3:10 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    The PO was for the 12th and he left on the 9th. Maybe because he didn't want me to wave him goodbye when I collected the keys? - Or when he refused to move and you had to hire bailiffs?

    He could return to do the cleaning? That made me laugh! I don't think he cleaned since moving in!
    Originally posted by toddis
    The point being that it wasn't your property at that point and you should not have risked it. For your own good.


    Had he returned and not gained access he could've caused you a very expensive headache
    • toddis
    • By toddis 13th Jun 17, 3:21 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    toddis
    The point being that it wasn't your property at that point and you should not have risked it. For your own good.


    Had he returned and not gained access he could've caused you a very expensive headache
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Even though he admitted he's vacated early? The PO stated that he needed to be left on or before the 12th
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 3:23 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    Even though he admitted he's vacated early? The PO stated that he needed to be left on or before the 12th
    Originally posted by toddis


    Ok, here we go.


    1: just because an order says so, doesn't mean it will happen. You would have needed bailiffs to come to ensure that he had left. Or remove him.


    2: You seem to think that texts can only be sent by the owner of the phone. Do you not consider that it could be anyone, or he could claim it could've been anyone. - IE then claim you illegally evicted him?
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 13th Jun 17, 3:52 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    Ok, here we go.


    1: just because an order says so, doesn't mean it will happen. You would have needed bailiffs to come to ensure that he had left. Or remove him.


    2: You seem to think that texts can only be sent by the owner of the phone. Do you not consider that it could be anyone, or he could claim it could've been anyone. - IE then claim you illegally evicted him?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    2. The same is true of anything short of a phone call or notice in person - Indeed, any kind of written notice can be faked (if someone can send a text from your phone, then they can probably send an email, - and either of those can be spoofed fairly easily. Letters have *no* security whatsoever), and yet the world still functions. There's a reasonable presumption that a text from his number is actually from him, especially since he actually left the keys! (I presume the LL would have mentioned it if not)
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 3:59 PM
    • 13,943 Posts
    • 13,445 Thanks
    Guest101
    2. The same is true of anything short of a phone call or notice in person - Indeed, any kind of written notice can be faked (if someone can send a text from your phone, then they can probably send an email, - and either of those can be spoofed fairly easily. Letters have *no* security whatsoever), and yet the world still functions. There's a reasonable presumption that a text from his number is actually from him, especially since he actually left the keys! (I presume the LL would have mentioned it if not)
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle


    True, so we go to the contract..... Does the tenancy agreement provide for any service of notice via mobile telephone text messaging? - Its unlikely.


    So I'm not sure what reasonable assumption you claim to make, or the case law surrounding that? perhaps you'd be kind enough to share? or is it simply your opinion?


    - you see my advice is trying to protect the OP from a civil claim of £300 per day for illegal eviction.....
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 13th Jun 17, 4:07 PM
    • 15,497 Posts
    • 38,852 Thanks
    FBaby
    He texted to say he was out and most importantly, he left the keys as he said he did in his text, quite a strong indication that he was indeed surrendering his lease and not intending to come back.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Jun 17, 5:39 PM
    • 14,354 Posts
    • 12,697 Thanks
    AdrianC
    OK, so the tenant owes you somewhere north of £5k.

    You can, I assume, document this fully - so the deposit can be claimed from the protection scheme anyway, whatever this text may or may not have said. Notice has now expired, and the possession date passed, so possession is with you legally.

    Lovely, an' all. But the real question here is what are your chances of ever seeing a penny of that money? Whether it's £5k or £6k or £9k is almost irrelevant. Document all the losses, submit a court claim, win a judgement... and... <fanfare turns into raspberry> then what?
    • toddis
    • By toddis 13th Jun 17, 6:11 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    toddis
    OK, so the tenant owes you somewhere north of £5k.

    You can, I assume, document this fully - so the deposit can be claimed from the protection scheme anyway, whatever this text may or may not have said. Notice has now expired, and the possession date passed, so possession is with you legally.

    Lovely, an' all. But the real question here is what are your chances of ever seeing a penny of that money? Whether it's £5k or £6k or £9k is almost irrelevant. Document all the losses, submit a court claim, win a judgement... and... <fanfare turns into raspberry> then what?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Well....I've given him 2 CCJs, I have an N39 ready to serve and once I'm settled with a new tenant, I'll turn my attention to serving the N39 and will get him in court to answer a few questions. I'll see where he stands financially and take it from there.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Jun 17, 6:17 PM
    • 14,354 Posts
    • 12,697 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Well....I've given him 2 CCJs, I have an N39 ready to serve and once I'm settled with a new tenant, I'll turn my attention to serving the N39 and will get him in court to answer a few questions. I'll see where he stands financially and take it from there.
    Originally posted by toddis
    Lovely, an' all.

    But - apart from a sense of satisfaction and a bigger legal bill - will that actually bring any money in?
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