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  • FIRST POST
    • shilen
    • By shilen 12th Jun 17, 10:43 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 0Thanks
    shilen
    Sofa Consumer Rights- Invalid contract?
    • #1
    • 12th Jun 17, 10:43 PM
    Sofa Consumer Rights- Invalid contract? 12th Jun 17 at 10:43 PM
    My wife and I recently (May 17) went to the Grand Designs Exhibition and were on the look out for a sofa. She had a specific company (Natuzzi) and shape, fabric etc in mind.

    We visited the sofa company (Company name: Designer Sofa) at the exhibition 4 times over the 2 days. They were helpful and even let us take their fabric samples away as we live close by. The sales woman was good, knowledgable and very helpful. She knew exactly what we wanted. We eventually agreed upon a design and fabric. We paid 50% deposit and the rest which would be paid over 10 month from delivery date.

    To cut a long story short, we had some concerns with the invoice as it seems the document is written more for the manufacturers purposes than for the customer contract. The description is in code and has no lay language to suggest what we have bought. We were reassured by the sales lady at the time and we had confidence in her. Heres the painfully funny part, It turns out that the information on the invoice is for the mirror image of the sofa we want!

    We spoke to them and the company refuse all responsibility, I completely understand people can make mistakes but even when I managed to speak to the original sales woman, she disagrees with our memory of the discussions about the sofa. I was somewhat surprised that they were so adamant to refuse to take some responsibility or barring that, offer a solution. It was only after several phone calls to them that the manager mentioned that as the sofa is a modular sofa, we can buy some more of the parts necessary to create what we want. This will increase the spend by £1200.

    I did have concerns with the invoice and expressed this to them at the time of signing, only to be reassured that the details had been filled out correctly. I have been thinking about how an invoice which is not in lay language can stand. The manager went just short of humiliating me by asking how did you sign a contract you didn't understand? When I replied that I highlighted my concerns and was reassured by the sales woman, he replied, "Ok so you did understand the contract and therefore its your fault". This went round in circles for a few minutes.

    I am struggling to understand how the Invoice can be considered valid when it contains indecipherable code/jargon. A little insight into my concern: I am a medical professional who carries out procedures and uses consent forms almost everyday. In my mind, the lady knew what we wanted (Verbal consent), I believe she made an error transcribing this to the invoice. In my profession, in order for consent to be considered informed and valid, my consent forms have to be written in a way that the patient can understand. It's all in plain English, not in medical jargon or in procedure codes.

    So as I see it I have 3 options:
    1. Stick with a sofa that faces a wall (because it is a mirror image of what we asked for!)
    2. Pay more money and risk not receiving anything as described. We have checked out the Trustpilot reviews {Text removed by MSE Investigator}
    3. Write a letter to the company stating Consumer Right Act 2015, although this may not be valid if this is considered a bespoke product (?)


    Can anyone give me any advice on other avenues I might be able to pursue?

    Thanks in advance


    Purchase May 2017 (exhibition)
    Called the company within one month
    Delivery date due Aug 2017
    Last edited by MSE Investigator; 20-06-2017 at 9:51 AM.
Page 1
    • takman
    • By takman 13th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
    • 2,282 Posts
    • 1,898 Thanks
    takman
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 10:16 AM
    My wife and I recently (May 17) went to the Grand Designs Exhibition and were on the look out for a sofa. She had a specific company (Natuzzi) and shape, fabric etc in mind.

    We visited the sofa company (Company name: Designer Sofa) at the exhibition 4 times over the 2 days. They were helpful and even let us take their fabric samples away as we live close by. The sales woman was good, knowledgable and very helpful. She knew exactly what we wanted. We eventually agreed upon a design and fabric. We paid 50% deposit and the rest which would be paid over 10 month from delivery date.

    To cut a long story short, we had some concerns with the invoice as it seems the document is written more for the manufacturers purposes than for the customer contract. The description is in code and has no lay language to suggest what we have bought. We were reassured by the sales lady at the time and we had confidence in her. Heres the painfully funny part, It turns out that the information on the invoice is for the mirror image of the sofa we want!

    We spoke to them and the company refuse all responsibility, I completely understand people can make mistakes but even when I managed to speak to the original sales woman, she disagrees with our memory of the discussions about the sofa. I was somewhat surprised that they were so adamant to refuse to take some responsibility or barring that, offer a solution. It was only after several phone calls to them that the manager mentioned that as the sofa is a modular sofa, we can buy some more of the parts necessary to create what we want. This will increase the spend by £1200.

    I did have concerns with the invoice and expressed this to them at the time of signing, only to be reassured that the details had been filled out correctly. I have been thinking about how an invoice which is not in lay language can stand. The manager went just short of humiliating me by asking how did you sign a contract you didn't understand? When I replied that I highlighted my concerns and was reassured by the sales woman, he replied, "Ok so you did understand the contract and therefore its your fault". This went round in circles for a few minutes.

    I am struggling to understand how the Invoice can be considered valid when it contains indecipherable code/jargon. A little insight into my concern: I am a medical professional who carries out procedures and uses consent forms almost everyday. In my mind, the lady knew what we wanted (Verbal consent), I believe she made an error transcribing this to the invoice. In my profession, in order for consent to be considered informed and valid, my consent forms have to be written in a way that the patient can understand. It's all in plain English, not in medical jargon or in procedure codes.

    So as I see it I have 3 options:
    1. Stick with a sofa that faces a wall (because it is a mirror image of what we asked for!)
    2. Pay more money and risk not receiving anything as described. We have checked out the Trustpilot reviews and you guessed it: they have an awful record and sound somewhat suspicious (possible fake reviews)
    3. Write a letter to the company stating Consumer Right Act 2015, although this may not be valid if this is considered a bespoke product (?)


    Can anyone give me any advice on other avenues I might be able to pursue?

    Thanks in advance


    Purchase May 2017 (exhibition)
    Called the company within one month
    Delivery date due Aug 2017
    Originally posted by shilen
    Just to be clear is this a corner sofa that you are talking about? because just like the invoice you had this wasn't mentioned once in your post .

    If it was a Corner Sofa then they come in either right hand or left hand. So there must have been something written on the invoice like "LH" or "RH" to specify what kind was being ordered?.
    • shilen
    • By shilen 13th Jun 17, 11:34 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    shilen
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 11:34 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 11:34 AM
    Thanks for your reply Takman, I didn't want to confuse matters and therefore mentioned the mirror image of the sofa. You are correct it is indeed a corner sofa with a chaise.

    The invoice does not have the written description or orientation/scale on the diagram

    As I am a new user i cant post the picture of the invoice. If you send me your email I can send the pic?

    Thanks for your help
    • cono1717
    • By cono1717 13th Jun 17, 11:52 AM
    • 563 Posts
    • 367 Thanks
    cono1717
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 11:52 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 11:52 AM
    Post a copy to http://imgur.com/ and then when you post the link you can type it like this:

    google[dot]com
    • RoonilWazlib
    • By RoonilWazlib 13th Jun 17, 12:49 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    RoonilWazlib
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:49 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:49 PM
    CRA still applies to bespoke products.


    As harsh as it sounds, your main problem is that you have signed a contract you didn't understand. Trader has evidence you agreed to it, you have no real evidence that you didn't understand it (because you signed it)




    Consumer Protection Amendment Regulations allow you to unwind a contract if you have been misled into the sale but you need to prove you were misled and also may need to prove the misleading information was a significant factor in your decision.
    Last edited by RoonilWazlib; 13-06-2017 at 12:50 PM. Reason: spelling
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 13th Jun 17, 12:53 PM
    • 14,972 Posts
    • 20,339 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:53 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:53 PM
    Send them a photo of the room and where the sofa is going, and make it clear that the mistake is entirely theirs, as the sofa that has been sent would not fit in your room, and therefore why on earth would you order the wrong one??

    I would then demand a replacement or full refund.

    Given it was bought at a show, I am not sure how they could argue that you filled in the wrong details when it was the sales person who did this.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 13th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    • 1,390 Posts
    • 1,377 Thanks
    steampowered
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    A court would interpret the invoice from the perspective of a reasonable person.

    Could a reasonable person tell from the invoice that the sofa was wrong? If not, the invoice will have no weight in front of a judge. For example the company will not be allowed to rely on codes which are not explained.

    Is this a bespoke product? If not, you may have a right to cancel the order within 14 days after delivery (possibly longer if the trader failed to give you the proper legally prescribed information). Cancelling might be the easiest route if this is an option.

    If you can't cancel, you would have to go down the route of claiming that the sofa was not as described. It sounds to me like you could legitimately claim a full refund. This would ultimately require taking county court action - which is very easy to do.
    • shilen
    • By shilen 13th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    shilen
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    imgur[dot]com/a/NmBFq

    for the invoice image

    Thanks everyone
    • takman
    • By takman 13th Jun 17, 2:43 PM
    • 2,282 Posts
    • 1,898 Thanks
    takman
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:43 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:43 PM
    www.imgur.com/a/NmBFq

    for the invoice image

    Thanks everyone
    Originally posted by shilen
    It has a diagram on it showing the sofa. Does this match what you have had delivered?
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 13th Jun 17, 2:50 PM
    • 2,786 Posts
    • 3,766 Thanks
    George Michael
    It has a diagram on it showing the sofa. Does this match what you have had delivered?
    Originally posted by takman
    The OP's sofa isn't going to be delivered until August.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 13th Jun 17, 2:51 PM
    • 4,299 Posts
    • 3,141 Thanks
    glentoran99
    My wife and I recently (May 17) went to the Grand Designs Exhibition and were on the look out for a sofa. She had a specific company (Natuzzi) and shape, fabric etc in mind.

    We visited the sofa company (Company name: Designer Sofa) at the exhibition 4 times over the 2 days. They were helpful and even let us take their fabric samples away as we live close by. The sales woman was good, knowledgable and very helpful. She knew exactly what we wanted. We eventually agreed upon a design and fabric. We paid 50% deposit and the rest which would be paid over 10 month from delivery date.

    To cut a long story short, we had some concerns with the invoice as it seems the document is written more for the manufacturers purposes than for the customer contract. The description is in code and has no lay language to suggest what we have bought. We were reassured by the sales lady at the time and we had confidence in her. Heres the painfully funny part, It turns out that the information on the invoice is for the mirror image of the sofa we want!

    We spoke to them and the company refuse all responsibility, I completely understand people can make mistakes but even when I managed to speak to the original sales woman, she disagrees with our memory of the discussions about the sofa. I was somewhat surprised that they were so adamant to refuse to take some responsibility or barring that, offer a solution. It was only after several phone calls to them that the manager mentioned that as the sofa is a modular sofa, we can buy some more of the parts necessary to create what we want. This will increase the spend by £1200.

    I did have concerns with the invoice and expressed this to them at the time of signing, only to be reassured that the details had been filled out correctly. I have been thinking about how an invoice which is not in lay language can stand. The manager went just short of humiliating me by asking how did you sign a contract you didn't understand? When I replied that I highlighted my concerns and was reassured by the sales woman, he replied, "Ok so you did understand the contract and therefore its your fault". This went round in circles for a few minutes.

    I am struggling to understand how the Invoice can be considered valid when it contains indecipherable code/jargon. A little insight into my concern: I am a medical professional who carries out procedures and uses consent forms almost everyday. In my mind, the lady knew what we wanted (Verbal consent), I believe she made an error transcribing this to the invoice. In my profession, in order for consent to be considered informed and valid, my consent forms have to be written in a way that the patient can understand. It's all in plain English, not in medical jargon or in procedure codes.

    So as I see it I have 3 options:
    1. Stick with a sofa that faces a wall (because it is a mirror image of what we asked for!)
    2. Pay more money and risk not receiving anything as described. We have checked out the Trustpilot reviews and you guessed it: they have an awful record and sound somewhat suspicious (possible fake reviews)
    3. Write a letter to the company stating Consumer Right Act 2015, although this may not be valid if this is considered a bespoke product (?)


    Can anyone give me any advice on other avenues I might be able to pursue?

    Thanks in advance


    Purchase May 2017 (exhibition)
    Called the company within one month
    Delivery date due Aug 2017
    Originally posted by shilen



    like a picture?

    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 13th Jun 17, 2:53 PM
    • 2,932 Posts
    • 5,057 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    You'll have a hard time claiming it has been missold when there is a diagram showing the layout, the diagram makes it more suitable for a layman than a written description would.

    If what they have ordered for you matches the diagram then it's your fault, if what they have ordered is the opposite of the diagram then they have ordered the wrong thing and it is their fault.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 13th Jun 17, 2:54 PM
    • 4,299 Posts
    • 3,141 Thanks
    glentoran99
    its pretty obvious from that what design/shape the sofa is
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 13th Jun 17, 2:56 PM
    • 2,385 Posts
    • 1,557 Thanks
    AndyPix
    ^^ Thats what i was just about to ask ?


    Does the sofa you actually want match the picture they have drawn on the invoice ?
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 13th Jun 17, 2:56 PM
    • 4,299 Posts
    • 3,141 Thanks
    glentoran99
    presume the room has 4 corners could it not just go on the opposite one than you thought?
    • shilen
    • By shilen 13th Jun 17, 3:25 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    shilen
    I too thought that this was straight forward and wrong and therefore highlighted to the sales woman who reassured me. We had used graph paper to draw out the flat and the sofa as well which she had been using to advise on measurements.

    I look at X-rays/ CT Scans and MRI scan on a daily basis, the scans are all clearly orientated but the images are orientated where the left is the right and vice versa. I thought that this was a little unusual for a mere sofa, and therefore asked again.

    The diagram is not orientated (Left, Right, Anterior, Posterior, Superior or Inferior) and is labelled with code.

    Do I have a leg to stand on, what more could I have done? or am I just very very unlucky and plain stupid?
    Last edited by shilen; 13-06-2017 at 3:27 PM.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 13th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
    • 4,299 Posts
    • 3,141 Thanks
    glentoran99
    is the sofa how it is in the picture? what you do in your daily job is irrelavant
    • shilen
    • By shilen 13th Jun 17, 3:29 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    shilen
    glentoran99 thanks for your reply, the flat has a TV, a balcony, kitchen which makes it impossible to have it any other way.
    • shilen
    • By shilen 13th Jun 17, 3:33 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    shilen
    glentoran99 thanks for your reply, The sofa is due to be delivered in August 2017. But they say they started work on it the very day we signed the contract and nothing can be done to change the modular system...

    It is relevant that the diagram is not orientated and the description is in code. It does not say left corner as we asked. My mistake was having complete confidence in the lady, but even then I did question her and also asked for a 3D print out which is something they offer. She said for this specific model they don't offer a 3D model on the software. When I spoke to the manager, he also mentioned that this model is one of the only one that don't have a 3D software model
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 13th Jun 17, 3:33 PM
    • 10,491 Posts
    • 7,050 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I'm not sure if you are deliberately avoiding the question....

    Does the sofa that you thought you had ordered match the sofa diagram shown on your invoice?
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