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  • FIRST POST
    • Muscle750
    • By Muscle750 12th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    • 847Posts
    • 256Thanks
    Muscle750
    Another public sector golden pension
    • #1
    • 12th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    Another public sector golden pension 12th Jun 17 at 6:05 PM
    Someone i know just took early retirement from the civil service took £80k lump sum off to sunny places for next 3 months and is going to carry on doing a 3 day week when they return for more than if they carried on working FT and left the pension. And the last contact i had with my pension in the private sector was informing me of a loss in the fund overall virtually wiping out the previous 12 months contributions.one word......................JOKE ...........end of.
    We along with many others i know working in the private sector feel badly let down
Page 2
    • Bravepants
    • By Bravepants 12th Jun 17, 9:11 PM
    • 238 Posts
    • 261 Thanks
    Bravepants
    I'm fuming too! I work in the public sector and they stopped my final salary when I had 19 years or so in it, now it's frozen and I have to wait until I'm 60 until I get it! I have to make do with an average salary scheme from now on that I can take from 67 at the same time as my state pension providing an extra cushion for old age (that I'm fuming about!).

    I'm also fuming that 7 years ago (not as much as 11) I decided to save extra into a DC AVC (yes I said DC!) that I will only be able to take from 55 when I retire early having worked out that if I stash extra to save 40% tax (instead of spending my hard earned on utter cr*p) I can then take the 25% lump sum from the DC AVC (yes I said DC again!), which works out to be basically free money from the government!

    I'm also fuming that I have also saved extra into a S&S ISA, because well I'm forced to do that sort of thing if I want to retire at 55! When I retire at 55 I will no doubt be fuming that I have a choice whether to work part time or maybe volunteer to help my community or something else that I might fume about!

    (Edited because I just thought of some more stuff that people can fume about!)

    I spent 7 years at University, and BEFORE student loans came into being! That means I used your money (yes public money!) to get myself a PhD in engineering! A student hippy type of qualification, which the University of Life educated amongst the general populous would declare as being a waste of time with the owner of such a qualification no doubt being berated for not having spent his time improving his or her "common sense", rather than taking advantage of free education as an investment towards the future and possibly resulting in the sort of person, now rapidly approaching 50 years old, that has NEVER been out of work!

    I'm not only fuming, but positively simmering to boiling point that I've never had the opportunity to claim benefits!

    If we all start fuming perhaps we could save money on our heating bills this winter!

    There is no point to this post, it's fairly sarcastic and a bit silly, but no doubt someone will be fuming about it! Also, there are plenty of exclamation marks in here for those who wish to fume about that!

    !
    Last edited by Bravepants; 12-06-2017 at 9:52 PM.
    • chiefie
    • By chiefie 12th Jun 17, 9:23 PM
    • 286 Posts
    • 298 Thanks
    chiefie
    I've worked in both The public and private sectors.

    Pensions in the private sector have gotten worse as firms and their highly paid CEOs put shareholders before workers. And the employees did not find the power to rebel against it. It makes me fume that - but we the workers have allowed that to happen and taken it on the chin.

    So we then take it out on people who remain luckier - I.e. The public sector. It will surely come, it has too. And when it does don't celebrate it, be sad that it has all fell to pieces on our watch.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 12th Jun 17, 9:58 PM
    • 8,076 Posts
    • 7,902 Thanks
    Linton
    I've worked in both The public and private sectors.

    Pensions in the private sector have gotten worse as firms and their highly paid CEOs put shareholders before workers. And the employees did not find the power to rebel against it. It makes me fume that - but we the workers have allowed that to happen and taken it on the chin.

    So we then take it out on people who remain luckier - I.e. The public sector. It will surely come, it has too. And when it does don't celebrate it, be sad that it has all fell to pieces on our watch.
    Originally posted by chiefie
    The primary objective off all CEOs' should be to make money for the shareholders. Your pension depends on it.

    Employers will pay what it takes to get the employees they need. Most employees, given the choice, would choose a job on the basis of higher pay rather than better pensions, so that's where the money has to go.
    • Kynthia
    • By Kynthia 12th Jun 17, 10:06 PM
    • 4,942 Posts
    • 6,920 Thanks
    Kynthia
    Doesn't quite sound right. If they were civil service then it's likely they've spent their whole time in the Classic Scheme. In order to get a pension of half their salary they would have to have worked for 40 years or paid extra contributions that didn't attract the employer's contribution and were therefore more expensive.

    If they are working 3 days a week still in the civil service whilst receiving their pension then they have partially retired rather than retired. To get a lump sum of £80k from just a partial retirement is really quite large and would indicate they were a very high earner. The rules of partial retirement are that they must reduce their work salary by a minimum of 20% and can't have a total income from their salary and pension that is greater than their salary was before. So they can't be on more money now.

    So they only way they could be on more money now is that they are getting another pension in addition to the civil service one as otherwise their pension would be abated, and unless they were on very high pay that other pension also contributed to the lump sum figure you were given. If that is the case they won't have 40 years service if they worked elsewhere and therefore will have an annual pension quite a bit less that half their salary.

    If we are going to compare ourselves people who earn much much more than us then even in their retirement it's likely we'll be dissapointed.
    Last edited by Kynthia; 12-06-2017 at 10:23 PM.
    Don't listen to me, I'm no expert!
    • chiefie
    • By chiefie 12th Jun 17, 10:07 PM
    • 286 Posts
    • 298 Thanks
    chiefie
    The primary objective off all CEOs' should be to make money for the shareholders. Your pension depends on it.

    Employers will pay what it takes to get the employees they need. Most employees, given the choice, would choose a job on the basis of higher pay rather than better pensions, so that's where the money has to go.
    Originally posted by Linton
    Understand what you are saying - but without a workforce you have no product
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 12th Jun 17, 10:13 PM
    • 8,413 Posts
    • 6,709 Thanks
    Andy L
    I didn't quite take that much of a salary hit, when I went to work in the public sector I could have earned about £75k in the private sector, my PS salary was only about £52k (I forget), but when you add the pension on and all the holidays (I'm university lecturer), and take away all the unpaid overtime that I used to work. I suddenly realised what a mug I had been, but that didn't make me angry at other lecturers, it just made me realise what a fool I had been.
    Originally posted by chucknorris
    Surprisingly the Universities are classed as part of the private sector
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 12th Jun 17, 10:15 PM
    • 8,413 Posts
    • 6,709 Thanks
    Andy L
    (snip lots of facts)
    Originally posted by Kynthia
    FYI its a waste of time bring facts into a Muscle750 rant.
    • Sipowicz
    • By Sipowicz 13th Jun 17, 10:22 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Sipowicz
    It makes me so angry.......I could throw the phone down!
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 13th Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    • 696 Posts
    • 484 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Muscle750 - I'm surprised that you know so many people who've retired from the public sector on such good deals. Besides your mate from this post there was someone else who retired with a £100k(?) pension and some other couple who swanned around the caribbean or somewhere several times a year. I worked in the NHS for over 25 years and I don't think I know that many people who've done that.


    Why didn't you get a public sector job 25 or 30 years ago like your mates?


    I think you've said before that you work as a welder or mechanic or recovery truck driver and where could you get a job in the public sector, but when I joined the NHS in 1987 it employed all of these trades. Some may have been contracted out by now, but I'm pretty certain my local ambulance trust still employs drivers (and not necessarily ambulance drivers) and mechanics. My own trust still had an in-house engineering dept when I left 5 years ago. Apart from welders and mechanics they even employed upholsterers, and they even generated income for the trust.
    • jerrysimon
    • By jerrysimon 13th Jun 17, 2:23 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    jerrysimon
    Sitting here enjoying my DB pension taken at 56 three months ago (albeit reduced) after 40 years in the Pulic Sector. I watched as many others left to sometimes double their salary working in London.

    I decided to stay. When I finally left I think I was contributing about £200/month though as I recall back when I was 16 there was no contribution

    I doubt back then it would have even occured to me set up a pension, so count my self fortuanate that it was done for me.

    Jerry
    • JoeCrystal
    • By JoeCrystal 13th Jun 17, 3:43 PM
    • 1,239 Posts
    • 697 Thanks
    JoeCrystal
    You know Muscle750. There is nothing to stop you from working in a temporary public sector role with access to a DB scheme which accept transfers in. Normally, you need two years minimum but I believe that bought benefits with transfers in doesn't apply in that case.

    Just find such job,. Transfer all DC fund into it and then you actually got DB benefits. That is what I am seriously considering doing if such schemes still exist in twenty years.

    That is my very long term plan when I am in a decade before my retirement anyway is to switch to a job with most advantageous pension scheme. No matter how much I am personally saving, it is just not enough atm.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Jun 17, 4:36 PM
    • 22,368 Posts
    • 12,907 Thanks
    xylophone
    I watched as many others left to sometimes double their salary working in London.
    They might also have obtained access to generous private sector DB schemes.....
    • Acquinas
    • By Acquinas 13th Jun 17, 5:34 PM
    • 113 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    Acquinas
    It's no good waking up from deep slumber in your mid-50s and then taking a look around and only then realising that you may have made one or two wrong choices. We all make them. The key is to learn from them an adjust your behaviour. I've worked in both sectors, though mainly public. I have mates who are my age who are self-employed or work for big corporates. They tend to have more salary than me, bigger houses, flashier cars and no thought at all about their pensions or sometimes no pension arrangements at all. Who is to say which one us has made the best choice? We are all adults and we have to take responsibility for our choices.
    • chucknorris
    • By chucknorris 13th Jun 17, 6:06 PM
    • 9,061 Posts
    • 13,675 Thanks
    chucknorris
    Surprisingly the Universities are classed as part of the private sector
    Originally posted by Andy L
    I know they are, but the pension is just the same as a public sector pension (and this thread is about public sector pensions).
    Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird
    The only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistake
    Chuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".
    After running injuries I now also hike, cycle and swim, less impact on my joints.

    For the avoidance of doubt Chuck Norris is an actor and an ex martial artist (not me)
    • Muscle750
    • By Muscle750 13th Jun 17, 7:44 PM
    • 847 Posts
    • 256 Thanks
    Muscle750
    Sick of hearing why didnt i get a job in the public sector all we are asking for is a level playing field it will however never happen in my lifetime. With much higher contributions from the employer which basically is the tax payer inc myself enabling over inflated public pensions and please dont start bleating on about how you were all paid a pittance and this makes up for it. If you took say 1000 from both the Public sector and 1000 from the Private sector there will be a far higher percentage in the public sector that have took the money and run by the time they are 60 and are enjoying life than there are of us manual workers.
    • jerrysimon
    • By jerrysimon 13th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    jerrysimon
    I actually started manual work in the public sector working in a RN Dockyard on warships and minesweepers. In those days none of the dry docks were covered either !

    There were a lot of caulkers and welders there too


    Jerry
    • JoeCrystal
    • By JoeCrystal 13th Jun 17, 9:39 PM
    • 1,239 Posts
    • 697 Thanks
    JoeCrystal
    Sick of hearing why didnt i get a job in the public sector all we are asking for is a level playing field it will however never happen in my lifetime.
    Originally posted by Muscle750
    There will be a level playing field, mostly due to closing of all DB pension schemes. That will happen eventually, with public sector paying similar average as private sector, thanks to auto enrolment . Once the employer will have to pay 15% or 20% then it will be a beginning of the end for them. Having said that, I think the median public sector pension is £5,600 in 2012. So not very high sadly.

    Anyway, as you mentioned, you DO have deferred DB from a decade ago so be happy and LUCKY that you got some certainty in your retirement. You may comment on how unfair the public sector pension are. There are some like me who grits his teeth on how unfair that people like you got deferred DB pension while paying peanuts for them. You might even get high CETV value for it as well! If your employer do pay in DC higher than 2.5% then why, you are already doing better than average employer contrition rate in private sector! I will have to make do with 2% instead.

    In short, it is only up to you to figure out how to retire as best as you can. I am sure that this forum will be happy to help you with suggestions on how to improve your DC pension pot. I certainly found this forum to be a major help in improving my pension prospect as I had ZERO pension pot when I was 24, about six years ago. It just doesn't matter how well others are doing, it is your retirement that is most important to you and the onus is on you. You already got a good start with Deferred DB pension scheme, build more on it with more contribution or savings. At the end of the day, do you really want to face the possibility of not having high enough income for your retirement?
    Last edited by JoeCrystal; 13-06-2017 at 9:54 PM.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 14th Jun 17, 12:12 AM
    • 696 Posts
    • 484 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Sick of hearing why didnt i get a job in the public sector all we are asking for is a level playing field...
    Originally posted by Muscle750

    You may be sick of it, but why didn't you get a job in the public sector when you could have? I decided to take a job in the public sector nearly 30 years ago because the likelihood of a lower salary than I could get in the private sector was outweighed by the greater certainty of better pension provision in later life.


    I have no idea why any sensible person would not make the same decision I did. But you must have chosen not to. Public sector workers are not responsible for decisions you made earlier in your working life. Did your mates who have now retired on "gold plated" public sector schemes never have the kindness to suggest to you to get out and do something different?


    But I suspect that back in the 80s or 90s you decided to get a better paid job in the private sector and didn't think about a pension 30 or 40 years ahead. And if it wasn't a better paid job in the private sector, why didn't you get a job in something like the NHS as a transport driver, or mechanic? As I've posted earlier, all these jobs were available in the NHS 30 years ago, and they had gold plated pensions!
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 14th Jun 17, 12:29 AM
    • 696 Posts
    • 484 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Muscle750 - the car history of my wife and I over the last 35 years is: second hand Renault 5; new Vauxhall Astra Mk2; new Nissan Almera; second hand Toyota Avensis; second hand Ford Mondeo.


    You've just had your Audi A6(!) bumped while unattended (sorry don't know how to link to this other thread on the forum).


    If you are so worried about your future pension entitlement (negative), why are you owning such an expensive car (whether second hand or new and so expensive to maintain)? We could afford to buy a much more expensive car but choose not to as we see it as a waste of money. We choose not to do so, but you do. No problem. But you also chose not to get a gold plated pension.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 14th Jun 17, 12:48 AM
    • 696 Posts
    • 484 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Unfortunately, as many other posters have said here and other pension threads, most young people do not consider the future value of their membership of pension schemes. I've seen this in the NHS where many new staff opted out of the pension scheme to get a higher take home salary but bitterly regretted it 20 or 30 years later when they realised what the consequences were.


    Many years ago my father in law (now deceased but a senior HR manager in an industry not renowned for good union relations) told his daughter and me: "First thing - join the pension scheme; second thing - join a union". On the whole, wise advice I think.


    EDIT: And this was at a time when the then Thatcher govt were encouraging public sector staff to opt out of their public sector pensions and buy private personal rip-off pensions instead. Now we have compulsory workplace pensions to save the public purse in a different way. What a great example of short term benefit and long term loss!
    Last edited by Manxman in exile; 14-06-2017 at 1:09 AM. Reason: Addition
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