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  • FIRST POST
    • JSPENCER
    • By JSPENCER 12th Jun 17, 12:20 PM
    • 35Posts
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    JSPENCER
    Periodic Tenancy Notice
    • #1
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:20 PM
    Periodic Tenancy Notice 12th Jun 17 at 12:20 PM
    Hi Guys


    looked through a few threads like this but think my situation is slightly different.


    Lease came to an end in January, it didn't specify what happens when the least ends, therefore I'm under the impression it rolls onto a statutory periodic tenancy by default.


    However, managing agent did email me in October to advise lease was coming to an end, and I could go onto a periodic/rolling contract (doesn't specify statutory or contractual). Their email states:


    "A periodic tenancy means that if you wish to vacate the property then you will have to give us 2 months notice in writing. Please be advised that the landlord can also give you two months notice to vacate"


    I replied to say (verbatim) "Happy to go onto the rolling contract if the price stays the same", and was told I'd receive a letter in the post to confirm, which I never did.


    My question is - Am i actually committed to giving two months notice based on my reply to that email? I haven't signed any new documentation, and it also doesnt state that the rolling contract is for a set time frame (30 days, 60 days etc) - What I've seen is 30 days notice is normally the case for statutory periodic tenancies. Have I basically committed to a contractual periodic tenancy via email?
    Last edited by JSPENCER; 12-06-2017 at 12:23 PM.
Page 1
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 12th Jun 17, 12:28 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
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    Guest101
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:28 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:28 PM
    What does your tenancy agreement say?
    • JSPENCER
    • By JSPENCER 12th Jun 17, 12:37 PM
    • 35 Posts
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    JSPENCER
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:37 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:37 PM
    What does your tenancy agreement say?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    As mentioned in my original post, the lease doesn't specify what happens when it comes to an end - no mention of a periodic tenancy.


    I guess I just need to know, is me confirming via email that I'm happy to go onto a rolling contract a binding agreement? nothing has been signed.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 12th Jun 17, 12:46 PM
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    Guest101
    • #4
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:46 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:46 PM
    Possibly, it's ultimately for a court to decide or you and LL to agree.

    Sorry it's not a clear yes / no. If you gave one month notice, in line with rental period, it may be that the LL would accept this. Wot a nudge and a wink to accommodate viewings more liberally than you are actually required to.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 12th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    • 962 Posts
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    saajan_12
    • #5
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    What I've seen is 30 days notice is normally the case for statutory periodic tenancies.
    Originally posted by JSPENCER
    I don't know the answer to whether the email & confirmation is enough to create a Contractual Periodic Tenancy - think that would be one for a court to decide. However to be precise if you are on a SPT, the notice should be
    "One full period".

    This is significant because it has to align with tenancy periods, not just be 30 days / 4 weeks / 1 calendar month.
    • JSPENCER
    • By JSPENCER 12th Jun 17, 1:00 PM
    • 35 Posts
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    JSPENCER
    • #6
    • 12th Jun 17, 1:00 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jun 17, 1:00 PM
    I don't know the answer to whether the email & confirmation is enough to create a Contractual Periodic Tenancy - think that would be one for a court to decide. However to be precise if you are on a SPT, the notice should be
    "One full period".

    This is significant because it has to align with tenancy periods, not just be 30 days / 4 weeks / 1 calendar month.
    Originally posted by saajan_12

    My period would end on the 15th of the calendar month, therefore I know I would need to give notice on the 15th of the month if one full period is required, ready to move out on the 14th of the following month.


    Very interestd to hear if anyone knows whether the email is contractual.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Jun 17, 1:06 PM
    • 41,950 Posts
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 12th Jun 17, 1:06 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jun 17, 1:06 PM
    Your issue could ultimately only be decided by a court.

    I suspect that an offer was made, and that offer was accepted, so a contractual periodic tenancy exists with notice terms as stated (2 months).

    However there is room for doubt if you chose tomake an issue of it. You could try giving the required 'one full tenancy period's notice' required by a SPT and see how the landlord/agent responds.

    If they insist on 2 months, even after you point out the SPT notice requirement, then you're into either
    * them suing you for rent arrears
    * you suing them for deduction from deposit

    and a court being asked to decide (or deposit scheme arbitrator)
    • JSPENCER
    • By JSPENCER 12th Jun 17, 1:16 PM
    • 35 Posts
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    JSPENCER
    • #8
    • 12th Jun 17, 1:16 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jun 17, 1:16 PM
    Your issue could ultimately only be decided by a court.

    I suspect that an offer was made, and that offer was accepted, so a contractual periodic tenancy exists with notice terms as stated (2 months).

    However there is room for doubt if you chose tomake an issue of it. You could try giving the required 'one full tenancy period's notice' required by a SPT and see how the landlord/agent responds.

    If they insist on 2 months, even after you point out the SPT notice requirement, then you're into either
    * them suing you for rent arrears
    * you suing them for deduction from deposit

    and a court being asked to decide (or deposit scheme arbitrator)
    Originally posted by G_M


    Would definitely rather not go down the court route for this one.


    I've explained my confusion to them, as at no point was the word 'contractual' used, no rolling tenancy length was specified (1 month, 4 weeks, 1 rental period etc), and the fact they said I'd receive a letter confirming details, which I never did.


    Just waiting on a reply, always good to be armed with information first hence my questions here.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 12th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jun 17, 10:54 PM
    I've explained my confusion to them, as at no point was the word 'contractual' used, no rolling tenancy length was specified (1 month, 4 weeks, 1 rental period etc), and the fact they said I'd receive a letter confirming details, which I never did.
    Originally posted by JSPENCER
    There is no requirement for the word 'contract' to be used in order to form a contract. An 'offer' is required, as is 'acceptance' of that offer.

    It need not be written - it can be verbal. In this case email has been used.

    It would be assumed that the periods would be the same as those of the rent periods. If you've been paying monthly, it would be a monthly periodic.If you've been paying weekly, it would be a weekly periodic etc.

    The use of the words 'letter confirming' strongly suggests that the contract has already been formed. The letter would simply, as it says, confirm something that has already happened. The lack of the letter, then, could not negate a contract already formed.

    Sorry - I'm playing devil's advocate here and giving you the legal line they could pursue. Not saying they would win of course!
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 13th Jun 17, 9:26 AM
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    saajan_12
    There is no requirement for the word 'contract' to be used in order to form a contract. An 'offer' is required, as is 'acceptance' of that offer.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Consideration is also required, but from my understanding (not a lawyer) this is satisfied as both sides are giving up something (2 months notice, price stays the same)
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 10:00 AM
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    Guest101
    Consideration is also required, but from my understanding (not a lawyer) this is satisfied as both sides are giving up something (2 months notice, price stays the same)
    Originally posted by saajan_12


    Consideration: Rent in exchange for a property.


    the notice is the terms of contract, which do not require consideration.
    • melstar11
    • By melstar11 13th Jun 17, 10:41 AM
    • 250 Posts
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    melstar11
    If your original written tenancy agreement stated you had to give two months' notice to end the tenancy then that would continue with the periodic tenancy. If it was one month and the agent has only said to you that the notice you now have to give is two months, they'd have to prove that was agreed with you. With nothing in writing that will be tricky for them.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 10:53 AM
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    Guest101
    If your original written tenancy agreement stated you had to give two months' notice to end the tenancy then that would continue with the periodic tenancy. If it was one month and the agent has only said to you that the notice you now have to give is two months, they'd have to prove that was agreed with you. With nothing in writing that will be tricky for them.
    Originally posted by melstar11


    I think you might be confused.


    You cant be required to give two months notice to end a fixed term, so it couldn't 'continue' into the periodic.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 13th Jun 17, 10:57 AM
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    saajan_12
    Consideration: Rent in exchange for a property.

    the notice is the terms of contract, which do not require consideration.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    I was thinking of the emails as a modification to the original contract, so the rent in exchange for property was already happening, the only new thing is the ability to leave with 2 months notice. Consideration is usually but doesn't have to be money.

    Your way does make (more) sense treating the emails as a new contract, under which rent in exchange for property did start to happen so this is fulfilled.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 13th Jun 17, 11:15 AM
    • 445 Posts
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    SuboJvR
    I think you might be confused.

    You cant be required to give two months notice to end a fixed term, so it couldn't 'continue' into the periodic.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    If there was a break clause to offer two months' notice in the original contract, does the break clause automatically roll into a periodic tenancy as well or no?

    This is the situation we find ourselves in, but the agency have implied if we go onto a rolling contract we need only serve one month's notice (however they of course mean, one rental period).
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jun 17, 11:20 AM
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    Guest101
    If there was a break clause to offer two months' notice in the original contract, does the break clause automatically roll into a periodic tenancy as well or no?

    This is the situation we find ourselves in, but the agency have implied if we go onto a rolling contract we need only serve one month's notice (however they of course mean, one rental period).
    Originally posted by SuboJvR


    No a break clause would not automatically roll into a periodic tenancy.


    It depends on what kind of periodic tenancy you create. a STP is one rental period. A CPT is whatever is agreed (but cannot be less than the law requires)
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 13th Jun 17, 11:26 AM
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    saajan_12
    If there was a break clause to offer two months' notice in the original contract, does the break clause automatically roll into a periodic tenancy as well or no?

    This is the situation we find ourselves in, but the agency have implied if we go onto a rolling contract we need only serve one month's notice (however they of course mean, one rental period).
    Originally posted by SuboJvR
    Not really.. any fixed term tenancy rolls into a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, unless there are clauses specifying what happens AFTER the fixed term ends, in which case those terms form a Contractual Periodic Tenancy. A break clause refers to a time DURING the fixed term.

    In OP's case, the tenancy would have rolled into a SPT as there were no terms outlining a CPT in the original tenancy agreement. However (arguably) a new CPT was subsequently created by the exchange of emails. The new CPT said 2 months notice each side.

    SuboJvR- If you have a question with different circumstances, maybe quote whatever sections of your tenancy agreement you think are relevant and we can take a look at what applies to your situation? It sounds like there was no mention of a CPT so it rolled into a SPT as there were no further agreements formed.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 13th Jun 17, 11:44 AM
    • 445 Posts
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    SuboJvR
    Not really.. any fixed term tenancy rolls into a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, unless there are clauses specifying what happens AFTER the fixed term ends, in which case those terms form a Contractual Periodic Tenancy. A break clause refers to a time DURING the fixed term.

    In OP's case, the tenancy would have rolled into a SPT as there were no terms outlining a CPT in the original tenancy agreement. However (arguably) a new CPT was subsequently created by the exchange of emails. The new CPT said 2 months notice each side.

    SuboJvR- If you have a question with different circumstances, maybe quote whatever sections of your tenancy agreement you think are relevant and we can take a look at what applies to your situation? It sounds like there was no mention of a CPT so it rolled into a SPT as there were no further agreements formed.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    Thank you - my question has been answered; apologies for derailing slightly but the wonderful MSE folk had also helped me in another thread :-)

    This thread has been very helpful for me to read to make sure we don't end up inadvertently agreeing CPT terms via email.
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