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  • FIRST POST
    • misterbarlow
    • By misterbarlow 11th Jun 17, 4:10 PM
    • 365Posts
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    misterbarlow
    Smart meters in the tory manifesto!!
    • #1
    • 11th Jun 17, 4:10 PM
    Smart meters in the tory manifesto!! 11th Jun 17 at 4:10 PM
    Just came across these few articles on Smart...
    plenty others out there i'm sure..

    https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2017/05/19/manifestos-and-tech/

    The papers went to town yesterday on the Conservative manifesto but missed some interesting bits.

    First, no-one seems to have noticed that the smart meter programme is being quietly put to death.

    We read on page 60 that everyone will be offered a smart meter by 2020. So a mandatory national programme has become voluntary, just like that.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/no-ones-noticed-tories-quietly-killing-smart-meter-revolution/

    It’s lurking on page 60 of the Conservative offering: “everyone will be offered a smart meter by 2020”.

    If you blinked, you missed it. A national programme committed to install meters in 80pc of homes by 2020 has just become voluntary.
    http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/mortgages-bills/conservatives-wont-make-smart-energy-meters-compulsory-if-they-retain-power-11364183379379

    The installation of smart energy meters in over three-quarters of households by 2020 will be scrapped if the Conservative Party wins the General Election, the party's manifesto says.

    It's a policy change that will save £11 billion, but rather than shout about it the Conservatives have buried it in the middle of their massive manifesto document.

    Turn to page 60 of the Tory manifesto and you’ll see a fairly innocuous sentence:
    “everyone will be offered a smart meter by 2020”.

    It may seem like nothing, but that sentence is actually a huge U-turn on a much-hated government policy that has been rattling on for 20 years.

    Previous government policy for was to commit to 80% of homes and business to "have" them by 2020, now they will just have to be "offered" to everyone by 2020...

    There were huge financial penalties waiting for suppliers to not meet the 80% target, which is why they have all been recruiting staff like crazy, looks like this looming penalty will now be relaxed then, and many will stop pushing so hard to get them in??
Page 1
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • 16,604 Posts
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    molerat
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72593737#post72593737
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 11th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    • 4,371 Posts
    • 26,408 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    Good riddance to them!
    Your thoughts fade
    As you shake between the fags
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 11th Jun 17, 6:47 PM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 1,402 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:47 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:47 PM
    I'm now having to sit through TV adverts telling me to contact my supplier to get my smart meter fitted... no mention in the advert about them being optional, nor that the meter will be useless if I later switch supplier.

    Anyone got the email address of the ASA handy?
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 11th Jun 17, 8:06 PM
    • 248 Posts
    • 132 Thanks
    MeterMan
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 8:06 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 8:06 PM
    I'm now having to sit through TV adverts telling me to contact my supplier to get my smart meter fitted... no mention in the advert about them being optional, nor that the meter will be useless if I later switch supplier.

    Anyone got the email address of the ASA handy?
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Haven't we been through this already?

    Smart meters have never been mandatory, If I am wrong, then show me where it says that customers will not be able to refuse one fitting.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 11th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 1,402 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 8:24 PM
    Smart meters have never been mandatory, If I am wrong, then show me where it says that customers will not be able to refuse one fitting.
    Originally posted by MeterMan
    I'm not disagreeing with you in my previous post - I'm saying that the advert doesn't make it clear that they are optional, nor the potential issue with switching supplier.

    There was a lack of information about the pros and cons and the implied "you must do this" which many people would understand to be the case from what can easily be mistaken for a public information broadcast.

    Hence my reference was to ASA - not to Ofgem.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • poppellerant
    • By poppellerant 11th Jun 17, 9:53 PM
    • 970 Posts
    • 497 Thanks
    poppellerant
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:53 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:53 PM
    I wonder why some people are so resistant to smart meters? It does make you, or me at least, wonder.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 11th Jun 17, 10:04 PM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 1,402 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 10:04 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 10:04 PM
    I wonder why some people are so resistant to smart meters? It does make you, or me at least, wonder.
    Originally posted by poppellerant
    Personally I can't wait to have one - when they actually work and also offer some financial benefit to me by implementing demand-based pricing of the energy I buy.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Jun 17, 10:58 PM
    • 16,604 Posts
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    molerat
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 17, 10:58 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 17, 10:58 PM
    I wonder why some people are so resistant to smart meters? It does make you, or me at least, wonder.
    Originally posted by poppellerant
    Quite simply because they are not as smart as the adverts would like you to believe.
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    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 12th Jun 17, 6:58 AM
    • 914 Posts
    • 1,247 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    I'm now having to sit through TV adverts telling me to contact my supplier to get my smart meter fitted... no mention in the advert about them being optional, nor that the meter will be useless if I later switch supplier.

    Anyone got the email address of the ASA handy?
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    https://www.asa.org.uk/

    https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html

    I wonder why some people are so resistant to smart meters? It does make you, or me at least, wonder.
    Originally posted by poppellerant
    Personally I can't wait to have one - when they actually work and also offer some financial benefit to me by implementing demand-based pricing of the energy I buy.
    Originally posted by EachPenny

    Many people are resistant to change? I far from understand the resistance to smart meters. At least it provides an ongoing topic to complain about?

    As a smart meter user myself for 5 years, I'm well aware of the 'pitfalls' of the system. However, I'm perfectly happy with the system, It has been excellent and i haven't had one complaint with my system in all that time, (providing i stay with my energy supplier).

    Do i care it's costing the industry money as a whole? No. If I'm paying for it, I'm making use of available technology as far as I'm concerned, (within it's limitations).
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • poppellerant
    • By poppellerant 12th Jun 17, 10:49 AM
    • 970 Posts
    • 497 Thanks
    poppellerant
    Perhaps I should mention that I already have a smart meter installed. I admit I had a little trouble initially, but all is well now.
    Quite simply because they are not as smart as the adverts would like you to believe.
    Originally posted by molerat
    They take readings and send them off to the provider on a regular basis. If you have an IHD, they are capable of showing your current usage and the past.

    I admit they are limited as in not being able to show you your electric or gas reading on the IHD. Even for myself, this would save accessing my meters which aren't really in a convenient place (but whose meters are?). Also perhaps the past usage isn't as detailed as it a could be, for example not being to zoom in on specific days.

    One other glitch I can think of is often not being able to carry the smart functionallity of the meter across providers. For example, I switched from OVO to Iresa and now I have to submit my own readings. But I even did this with OVO, as I wanted visual confirmation of the readings rather than their word for it.

    But is any of the above really enough to stop me having a smart meter installed? No.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 12th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    • 16,604 Posts
    • 10,825 Thanks
    molerat
    I am not resistant to change but I rarely take up new tech on its first outing usually waiting for the second incarnation that actually works. Having a smart meter is really of little to no benefit to me as I can afford the time and effort to read my meters once a month and work out the standing of my accounts. If I were to have one installed and then change suppliers it would make my current routine more difficult.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 12th Jun 17, 4:20 PM
    • 914 Posts
    • 1,247 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    I am not resistant to change but I rarely take up new tech on its first outing usually waiting for the second incarnation that actually works. Having a smart meter is really of little to no benefit to me as I can afford the time and effort to read my meters once a month and work out the standing of my accounts. If I were to have one installed and then change suppliers it would make my current routine more difficult.
    Originally posted by molerat
    In that case, you never had one of these?


    https://goo.gl/images/PzE1f9


    https://goo.gl/images/oT21gI


    At which point did you enter the mobile phone market?


    https://goo.gl/images/p4oMTW


    I didn't have a 'brick' but i certainly had the next generation and i said i would never get a mobile phone......


    (Sorry to digress)
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 12th Jun 17, 5:22 PM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 1,402 Thanks
    EachPenny
    But is any of the above really enough to stop me having a smart meter installed? No.
    Originally posted by poppellerant
    But it should be enough for people who don't already have a smart meter fitted at this point in time.

    The kind of people who are being 'cold called' by their supplier or the kind who see the TV advert - who may not be aware of the SMETS1/2 issues and think "well I guess I've got to have one, so why not now?"

    Once you have your SMETS1 meter it isn't just a case of being able to phone up and ask for a SMETS2 meter when they become available. Unlike the very latest iPhone there is little incentive or reason for the suppliers to rush to give you the latest model.

    So someone getting a smart meter installed today might have to put up with the minor inconveniences of SMETS1 meters for a significant period of time. This is something they should be made aware of.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • GaleSF63
    • By GaleSF63 13th Jun 17, 7:34 AM
    • 234 Posts
    • 328 Thanks
    GaleSF63
    I'm now having to sit through TV adverts telling me to contact my supplier to get my smart meter fitted... no mention in the advert about them being optional, nor that the meter will be useless if I later switch supplier.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I've received 2 letters from Scottish Power recently - about 3 to 4 weeks apart.

    The first implied, if it didn't actually say, that Smart meters are compulsory, with phrases like "you will be getting an upgrade" and "contact us to arrange your installation" and "if we don't hear from you we my drop in while we're in your area".

    The second is headed "You are still eligible for an upgrade" followed by "make sure you don't miss out".

    If I had got round to making an appointment and had a meter installed I might have been pretty miffed to find out I didn't have to have one.

    I don't really care whether I get one or not but I don't like being misled.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Jun 17, 8:05 AM
    • 1,375 Posts
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    EachPenny
    The first implied, if it didn't actually say, that Smart meters are compulsory, with phrases like "you will be getting an upgrade" and "contact us to arrange your installation" and "if we don't hear from you we my drop in while we're in your area".
    ...
    I don't really care whether I get one or not but I don't like being misled.
    Originally posted by GaleSF63
    From friends and family I've discussed smart meters with your experience is quite common - and it is what I've been pointing out in response to people posting that smart meters are not compulsory. Technically they aren't, but the technicalities don't matter if people are not being given the opportunity to make an informed decision - or worse are being led into believing there is no option.

    If it was a financial product like packaged bank accounts or PPI then there would be clear rules about how they were advertised and promoted to make sure people understood the benefits, options and drawbacks.

    And if the benefits of smart meters were properly understood by the bill paying population in general then the smart meter mass rollout programme would be dead in the water and common sense would finally prevail.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • victor2
    • By victor2 13th Jun 17, 8:20 AM
    • 4,657 Posts
    • 3,097 Thanks
    victor2
    As a regular switcher, I've always said I'll wait until SMETS2 devices become available.
    However, as I read my meters daily - sad maybe, but I've got years of data and it keeps the brain active analysing it - I decided to get my current supplier (BG) to install them, so that I can use the IHD to read my meters. I even asked BG what will happen when I leave them, which I almost certainly will later this year. Officially they said the IHD will cease to function, but gave me the distinct impression that although the financial figures it shows will be incorrect, the meter reading facility will still work. They won't ask for the IHD back, but if it fails, I'm back to reading the meters directly.
    If the suppliers will no longer be forced to install smart meters, maybe getting them now was a smart move in my case...
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Jun 17, 8:35 AM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 1,402 Thanks
    EachPenny
    I decided to get my current supplier (BG) to install them, so that I can use the IHD to read my meters.
    Originally posted by victor2
    Does the IHD you've got (will get) show the actual meter readings? If so, can you let us know the make/model please as this is something people often ask about on here.
    Last edited by EachPenny; 13-06-2017 at 8:44 AM. Reason: Typo
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • victor2
    • By victor2 13th Jun 17, 8:59 AM
    • 4,657 Posts
    • 3,097 Thanks
    victor2
    Does the IHD you've got (will get) show the actual meter readings? If so, can you let us know the make/model please as this is something people often ask about on here.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I have it and yes it does both electric and gas readings (standard electricity meter, not E7 though, so don't know if it would display both E7 readings).
    Electricity readings are updated every 10 seconds, gas only every 30 minutes, presumably to minimise the use of the battery in the gas meter, which supposedly has a 10 year life.
    It's BG branded but says geo (Green Energy Options Ltd) on the back.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 13th Jun 17, 9:12 AM
    • 205 Posts
    • 238 Thanks
    House Martin
    But it should be enough for people who don't already have a smart meter fitted at this point in time.

    The kind of people who are being 'cold called' by their supplier or the kind who see the TV advert - who may not be aware of the SMETS1/2 issues and think "well I guess I've got to have one, so why not now?"

    Once you have your SMETS1 meter it isn't just a case of being able to phone up and ask for a SMETS2 meter when they become available. Unlike the very latest iPhone there is little incentive or reason for the suppliers to rush to give you the latest model

    So someone getting a smart meter installed today might have to put up with the minor inconveniences of SMETS1 meters for a significant period of time. This is something they should be made aware of.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    =
    Hopefully suppliers will be now fitting the latest gas smart meters such as the Landis+Gyr G370 Zigbee Ultrasonic which is SMETS1/2 compliant with future proof upgradeable Over the Air (OTA)
    As a little aside I heard from a meter reading colleague last week.He was at a property with a Gas Safe engineer was there fitting a gas point which needed the gas meter removing.BG shortly afterwards rang the occupier to ask why the gas meter had been removed. Great to see that BG is on the ball and ready to act.
    Ebay has been selling gas meters for over 10 years at least in huge numbers so occupiers can substitute meters to steal gas. This has always been the best way not to leave evidence of gas theft..This adds to all our bills (like the smart meter program does ) .Another positive for smart meters and another reason why they should be mandatory for all with no options to refuse.
    Last edited by House Martin; 13-06-2017 at 10:29 PM.
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