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  • FIRST POST
    • Spiby
    • By Spiby 11th Jun 17, 1:43 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Spiby
    Need advice on a bit of a mess with a parking ticket
    • #1
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:43 PM
    Need advice on a bit of a mess with a parking ticket 11th Jun 17 at 1:43 PM
    Hi, I'm going to preface this post by saying that I know I have totally messed up how I have handled things, but I would like advice on if/how I can avoid paying this penalty fare.

    A penalty notice was issued to my car by Indigo Parking at a train station car park. The penalty notice was issued at 11.20, but the driver had paid for parking at 11.07 using the phone payment system. I assumed as it was clearly a glitch it would be treated as such so I appealed using the internal appeals procedure. This was, inevitably I now realise, turned down.

    This is where I messed up: I was away a lot for work / ill / incredibly busy at the time and the email address I used to make the appeal was not my primary email, and I failed to check for the response to the appeal. By the time I did, I had missed the deadline for making a POPLA appeal. I didn't want the stress of going to court, so I decided to suck it up any pay; its my fault for missing the POPLA deadline and, as i understand it, the fact that I entered the appeals process can count against me in court.

    However, when I went to pay the penalty notice just now, I realised that the penalty notice does not actually have the correct registration number for the car: two of the numbers have been swapped round (so, for example, P674 MYB instead of P647 MYB). My question is, although the pictures sent to me with the appeal rejection clearly show the correct registration number for the car, does the fact that the ticket was issued to the wrong registration make the ticket invalid?

    Any advice would be appreciated: Does the incorrect citation of the licence plate invalidate the parking notice?

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by Spiby; 11-06-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Jun 17, 2:10 PM
    • 13,579 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:10 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:10 PM
    The answers to your questions will be determined by a judge should this ever get to a court stage. The issue around the transposed numbers of your VRM could be a point you would seek the protection of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, provided you don't continue to blow toes off by revealing who the driver was (edit your post and refer to 'the driver').

    However, the car park being covered by byelaws means that it's 'not relevant land' under PoFA and keeper liability cannot be invoked. But all these byelaw cases are complicated because the PPC (Indigo in your case) are trying to work on the basis of having their cake and eating it - but that gives them problems:

    1. If they are pursuing the keeper under contract law, PoFA provides protection - it's only the driver they can pursue because it's 'not relevant land'. They have 6 years to pursue this.

    2. If they are trying (I emphasise trying) to pursue under Byelaws, the legal position is - they can't, it is only the Train Operator who can do this and they have only 6 months to do so.

    You're beyond any appeal stage so it's a case of sitting back (doing some further reading on the points I've made above) and seeing what Indigo's next step is.

    You've given us no dates, but the first critical date point for you to get past is the 6 months one. But I wouldn't panic about that because TOCs seem reluctant to get involved, hence palming all this stuff over to a PPC.

    Also, have I iredeemably messed up my legal ability to not pay by participating in the appeal process and missing my POPLA date?
    Wherever did that come from?

    You don't pay up, you ride this out. This is a 'fightback' forum, so even unintentionally seeking a 'thumbs up' to paying this is unlikely to receive an easy-on-the-ears response - try MumsNet!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Spiby
    • By Spiby 11th Jun 17, 2:19 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Spiby
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:19 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:19 PM
    Ok, thanks for the response. I will do some more reading - I had done some, but it didn't seem relevant to the issues I mentioned. Obviously I don't want to pay, I'm just concerned that I have shot myself in the foot!
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Jun 17, 4:10 PM
    • 3,652 Posts
    • 5,173 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 4:10 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 4:10 PM
    Private pakring companys often appear to make the mistake of getting the make/colour/model/number plate wrong.
    This could be a means to get/trick the person who received the ticket to name or attempt to name ( ie guess) the drivers identity.
    under no circumstances should you attempt to name the driver, especially with railway bye laws cases
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    • 48,044 Posts
    • 61,505 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    I didn't want the stress of going to court, so I decided to suck it up any pay; its my fault for missing the POPLA deadline and, as i understand it, the fact that I entered the appeals process can count against me in court.
    Missing POPLA isn't a crime, you know. It's not mandatory. Why on earth would ANYONE pay, if this was the situation:

    The penalty notice was issued at 11.20, but the driver had paid for parking at 11.07 using the phone payment system. I assumed as it was clearly a glitch
    You owe nothing. And they mucked the PCN up with the wrong PCN number, as well!

    As Umkomaas says, this is going nowhere, it's just a matter of laughing at the letters until 6 months is up:

    If they are trying (I emphasise trying) to pursue under Byelaws, the legal position is - they can't, it is only the Train Operator who can do this and they have only 6 months to do so.

    You're beyond any appeal stage so it's a case of sitting back (doing some further reading on the points I've made above) and seeing what Indigo's next step is.

    You've given us no dates, but the first critical date point for you to get past is the 6 months one. But I wouldn't panic about that because TOCs seem reluctant to get involved, hence palming all this stuff over to a PPC.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Spiby
    • By Spiby 11th Jun 17, 6:16 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Spiby
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:16 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:16 PM
    Thanks to everyone who responded: I'm just anxious about ending up in court and losing on a technicality, and had read elsewhere that not going to POPLA can count against you in court.

    So, I have opened the mail that has been sitting around since Friday and, coincidentally, I have a letter from ZZPS chasing the payment dated from this Friday. I have also had a look at the letter I sent to Indigo when I initally appealed, and its clear from that who the driver was, so that bird has already flown (you live and learn).

    From what I have read online here, it seems like the next logical step is to send ZZPS the 'letter to debt collectors' linked in the FAQs thread, but is there any point in my sending a letter also to Indigo, saying that, given that the parking fees were paid 13 minutes before the ticket was issued, that the driver cannot be held repsonible for their IT systems failures, and that the driver is clearly not in contractual breach, and Indigo has suffered no loss, therefore I view the matter as closed. Please could they confirm no further action will be taken. Or would either or both of these actions be a hideous mistake? (I have done some research online, but I can't see anything that covers my situation)

    Just for entertainment value, the relevant paragraph of the appeals denial sent to me by Indigo reads as follows:

    “Your appeal has been rejected due to not paying at the correct time of the parking attendant, unable to see a valid payment when doing their rounds in the car park in which this is a breach of Terms and Condition of the car park”

    I'm not sure that this will help their case, along with the IT systems issues and the fact that they have issued the ticket to the wrong vehicle registration.


    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Jun 17, 6:28 PM
    • 14,733 Posts
    • 18,510 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:28 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:28 PM
    if the TOC wish to take you to magistrates court (due to the bylaws in place) then they could do (but wont)

    INDIGO do not have the right to do anything at all under the bylaws and private parkingf law does not apply

    so after 6 months there is nothing to worry about

    IGNORE the zzps DCA letters, dont open them , dont read them

    INDIGO would fail in civil court because of the fact that bylaws apply so civil law cannot be used , plus INDIGO are not an authority, the TOC is

    I would sit back and wait it out , keeping my money in my own bank account

    nobody cares about or takes notice of DCA letters because the DCA is powerless
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • 48,044 Posts
    • 61,505 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    I have also had a look at the letter I sent to Indigo when I initally appealed, and its clear from that who the driver was, so that bird has already flown (you live and learn).
    Doesn't matter, in a railway car park. If this was a 'penalty charge' as opposed to a parking charge, Indigo are pretending to have issued it under Railway Byelaws, and they can only hold an OWNER liable. The owner is unknown. Only the keeper and the driver are known.

    All you have to do is let is time out. I would NOT write to debt collectors at all. ZZPS are pointless and toothless.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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