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  • FIRST POST
    • drivernotkeeper
    • By drivernotkeeper 11th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    drivernotkeeper
    Driver, not keeper. Agent waited for driver to leave.
    • #1
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    Driver, not keeper. Agent waited for driver to leave. 11th Jun 17 at 12:34 PM
    I'm expecting to be contacted by post regarding an incident a couple of days ago. There are a couple of aspects to the case that I have not been able to find advice about by searching.

    1. The driver was not the registered keeper. The keeper may not want to have to deal with this, and has enough on her plate without having to deal with the stress of appeals, debt collection letters, court cases and the like. The advice on this forum seems to be not to reveal the driver's identity - but the driver would like to deal with this directly and feels bad about asking the keeper to do it. What are the downsides to this approach?

    2. The car was parked in a private residential street. There were no parking bays or yellow lines. Neither driver nor passenger noticed the signs, although they were of a decent size - they just thought it was a normal adopted road. The signs were attached to railings the other side the footpath. I guess they just assumed they applied to the property behind the railings and so didn't pay attention to them. They waited in the car for around 10 minutes with the doors open (it was warm). They then left the car for no more than 5 minutes to pick up a takeaway. The parking enforcement guy waited for them to leave the car unattended, and then presumaby took the registration and photos. A resident (who was not sympathetic) told them about it, revealing that the man he had been chatting to outside the whole time ran the scheme. The driver actually caught this man's eye and gave him a friendly smile as they got out of the car. So my main objection is the landowner's agent clearly waited for them to leave the car unattended, without drawing the driver's attention to the parking restrictions when he had ample opportunity to do so. If the charge is based on breach of contract, shouldn't the other party take the reasonable and cost-free step of telling the driver about the restrictions if they have failed to see the signs and they are standing right there?

    There was no notice attached to the windscreen, but the resident said to expect one through the post. Sorry if this is premature, but I want to be well prepared, and have a plan so the driver and keeper can discuss it in advance.

    Any advice or links to relevant posts that I've missed would be gratefully received.
    Last edited by drivernotkeeper; 11-06-2017 at 3:26 PM. Reason: Following advice
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Jun 17, 12:59 PM
    • 33,227 Posts
    • 17,175 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:59 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:59 PM
    Throughout you are advised to never reveal the driver. (Edit your OP)


    Can't you deal with this on behalf of the RK? ie in their name


    Follow the advice in the newbies faq thread on how to deal with this. Objecting about the landowner's agent's action alone isn't going to make it go away!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Jun 17, 1:26 PM
    • 15,462 Posts
    • 24,177 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:26 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:26 PM
    You can do everything in your mother's name, just ensure her name is placed at the foot of each communication, and given we recommend only a squiggle for a signature (identity protection strategy when you are dealing with anyone 'dodgy'), you can 'help' her with that too.

    The keeper has so much more protection than the driver under the Protection of Freedoms Act. All this is detailed in the sticky Quentin refers you to.

    Please tell us who the parking company is so we can advise more specific strategy and provide you with a 'prognosis'.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 11th Jun 17, 2:02 PM
    • 1,169 Posts
    • 2,328 Thanks
    Lamilad
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:02 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:02 PM
    As advised above you need to edit your opening post so as not to reveal who was driving e.g. your point one should start:

    "The keeper was not the driver..."

    And your point 2

    "the driver parked in a private residential street...."

    ... You get the drift
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    Sounds like PCM?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • drivernotkeeper
    • By drivernotkeeper 11th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    drivernotkeeper
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    Thanks for the help so far.

    Can't you deal with this on behalf of the RK? ie in their name
    Originally posted by Quentin
    The concern with this approach is that all correspondence will be sent to the keeper's address and be opened by them first. If we can expect debt collectors letters and even court summons then these bullying tactics are likely to worry the keeper. The driver would feel obliged to keep the keeper in the loop with everything and get the keeper's approval on any letters sent in their name. Even if the keeper isn't having to do the work of writing and sending the letters, the correspondence is likely to cause them unnecessary anxiety.

    The company is National Parking Management Ltd. (NPM), an IPC member.

    The keeper would probably be happy with sending the IPC template response from the NEWBIES thread, but it would depend what type of bullying letters can be expected after that.
    • drivernotkeeper
    • By drivernotkeeper 11th Jun 17, 9:29 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    drivernotkeeper
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:29 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:29 PM
    Just a quick thought:

    NPM did not have "reasonable cause" to obtain keeper's details from the DVLA, as their agent had ample opportunity to discuss the parking with the driver and ask for their contact details at the time. Is this worth adding this to the initial response?

    Sorry if this is going off-piste, I'm so irritated by this sneaky behaviour I'm determined to make it backfire for them somehow!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 17, 9:31 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,091 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:31 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:31 PM
    Use another address for service (yours) but their name. That's perfectly OK.

    There will be debt collector letters, better laughed at by you, IMHO. Not prolific in court:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/National_Parking_Management.html_formerly_Northamp tonshire_Parking_Management.html

    Highly unlikely to mean any more than threatograms but if it were my relative, I'd use MY address.

    This is only relevant if he/you have to defend in court, highly unlikely, as I said. You can't use it for a complaint because the IPC will not give two hoots:
    Just a quick thought:

    NPM did not have "reasonable cause" to obtain keeper's details from the DVLA, as their agent had ample opportunity to discuss the parking with the driver and ask for their contact details at the time. Is this worth adding this to the initial response?

    Sorry if this is going off-piste, I'm so irritated by this sneaky behaviour I'm determined to make it backfire for them somehow!
    Originally posted by drivernotkeeper
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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