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  • FIRST POST
    • wonkotsane
    • By wonkotsane 11th Jun 17, 9:40 AM
    • 18Posts
    • 5Thanks
    wonkotsane
    Samsung refusing to repair faulty phone
    • #1
    • 11th Jun 17, 9:40 AM
    Samsung refusing to repair faulty phone 11th Jun 17 at 9:40 AM
    I purchased a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge around a year ago on their upgrade programme. You pay monthly for the phone through a finance company and you are eligible to upgrade every year directly through Samsung.

    Samsung have replaced the phone 2 or 3 times for different faults and I have had it replaced once through my phone insurance after I dropped it and broke the screen. However, they are refusing to honour the warranty for the latest problem, claiming that I have physically damaged the phone.

    A few months back I took my phone out of my jacket pocket and felt that the glass covering the rear camera was broken. I checked it and it looked like a bullet hole. When I got back to the office I showed a colleague and he said he had seen something on his news feed a couple of days previously about it happening to these phones. I did some research and indeed found a large number of articles - including some referring to a class action suit in the US - where people were having the same problem. Almost every person, though, was saying that Samsung were refusing the admit responsibility for it and were forcing customers to pay to repair the phone.

    I contacted Samsung and told them what had happened, what I'd found online and asked for it to be repaired under warranty. I was told over the phone there and then that it wouldn't be covered because I had physically damaged the phone. They hadn't even seen the phone and had made their mind up that I had damaged it.

    I have had lots of communication by phone and email with Samsung regarding this problem and they have said that they definitely will not honour the warranty. They still haven't told me how much it will cost to repair despite me asking several times, they have also failed to tell me what evidence the engineer found that pointed to physical damage despite me asking and in answer to my question as to how a small square of toughened glass could be broken in such a way without causing any damage whatsoever to the rest of the phone they have said it's not their place to explain that but that it wouldn't be possible to cause the damage without damaging the rest of the phone which is the point I was making!

    I have provided Samsung with evidence that this is a fault with the manufacture or design of the handset. I have pointed out that the internet is awash with reports of people having the same problem, that there is a class action suit in the US being launched for this problem and provided them with pictures I downloaded off the internet of people reporting the exact same issue and how they are identical.

    I am not willing to pay for repair of the handset when it is defective. I have been without this phone for months but have made several hundreds of pounds in payments for it. Samsung have been evasive and contradictory. What do you think my chances are of successfully obtaining judgement through the small claims court? I just want it repair for free and my costs refunded or for them to pay off the finance and I'll get a phone from someone else.
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 11th Jun 17, 11:46 AM
    • 4,666 Posts
    • 9,344 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 11:46 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 11:46 AM
    The internet being 'awash' with complaints isn't proof

    Anyone can start a class action lawsuit. That doesn't prove anything.

    You need actual proof. Speak to someone independently qualified to give a report that this in an inherent fault with the phone.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jun 17, 11:58 AM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 11:58 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 11:58 AM

    Samsung have replaced the phone 2 or 3 times for different faults and I have had it replaced once through my phone insurance after I dropped it and broke the screen. However, they are refusing to honour the warranty for the latest problem, claiming that I have physically damaged the phone.
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    So you have had approx. 4 different phones. You are aware the warranty is from the original phone and does not reset on every replaced phone
    So to Samsung it looks like you are damaging these phones


    I am not willing to pay for repair of the handset when it is defective. I have been without this phone for months but have made several hundreds of pounds in payments for it. Samsung have been evasive and contradictory. What do you think my chances are of successfully obtaining judgement through the small claims court? I just want it repair for free and my costs refunded or for them to pay off the finance and I'll get a phone from someone else.
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    until we know when you got the original phone as you will only has 12 months warranty, so if it outside of the 12 months then you will have to pay for a repair regardless if you are paying finance on the phone as that has nothing to do with the warranty. have you contacted the finance company about this as in effect they own the phone until you pay it off as the retailer gets paid by the finance company.
    • The-Truth
    • By The-Truth 11th Jun 17, 12:00 PM
    • 463 Posts
    • 529 Thanks
    The-Truth
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:00 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:00 PM
    You've stated they've replaced the phone 2 or 3 times, so then this will be at least a 4th. You only bought the phone a year ago, surely you can see now why they've lost trust in you?

    Sure people can have accidents. but 4 times a year?
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jun 17, 12:04 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:04 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:04 PM
    You've stated they've replaced the phone 2 or 3 times, so then this will be at least a 4th. You only bought the phone a year ago, surely you can see now why they've lost trust in you?

    Sure people can have accidents. but 4 times a year?
    Originally posted by The-Truth
    dont forget the time it was replaced by insurance company, so this would be the 5th phone. I would say the warranty will have expired
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 11th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    • 2,552 Posts
    • 18,330 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 12:34 PM
    I have provided Samsung with evidence that this is a fault with the manufacture or design of the handset.
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    What form did this evidence take? I assume an independent report from an expert and not anecdotal internet complaints?

    Then your next step is to take them to SCC armed with said report.

    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jun 17, 1:13 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:13 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:13 PM
    What form did this evidence take? I assume an independent report from an expert and not anecdotal internet complaints?

    Then your next step is to take them to SCC armed with said report.
    Originally posted by mije1983
    i would say the evidence was anecdotal internet complaints as this is what OP states

    I have provided Samsung with evidence that this is a fault with the manufacture or design of the handset. I have pointed out that the internet is awash with reports of people having the same problem, that there is a class action suit in the US being launched for this problem and provided them with pictures I downloaded off the internet of people reporting the exact same issue and how they are identical.
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 11th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    • 2,552 Posts
    • 18,330 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:29 PM
    i would say the evidence was anecdotal internet complaints as this is what OP states
    Originally posted by angryparcel

    Yeah it was more a tongue in cheek comment really as I don't believe they have anything resembling evidence.

    I was kind of hoping that the OP understood that anyone can write anything on the internet. It doesn't make it factual. So their referral to 'evidence' was actually evidence. But I think not!

    Of course, if the OP had actual evidence, then no doubt Samsung would have immediately fixed it for them just to keep it quiet out of fear of it coming out and leading to many more claims.

    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jun 17, 1:33 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:33 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:33 PM
    Yeah it was more a tongue in cheek comment really as I don't believe they have anything resembling evidence.

    I was kind of hoping that the OP understood that anyone can write anything on the internet. It doesn't make it factual. So their referral to 'evidence' was actually evidence. But I think not!

    Of course, if the OP had actual evidence, then no doubt Samsung would have immediately fixed it for them just to keep it quiet out of fear of it coming out and leading to many more claims.
    Originally posted by mije1983
    but with the OP having 4 faulty phones ( 3 from samsung 1 from insurance) in 12 months and now they want a 5th and seem to think each phone comes with a fresh warranty i dont they will get far
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 11th Jun 17, 2:14 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    So you have had approx. 4 different phones. You are aware the warranty is from the original phone and does not reset on every replaced phone
    So to Samsung it looks like you are damaging these phones




    until we know when you got the original phone as you will only has 12 months warranty, so if it outside of the 12 months then you will have to pay for a repair regardless if you are paying finance on the phone as that has nothing to do with the warranty. have you contacted the finance company about this as in effect they own the phone until you pay it off as the retailer gets paid by the finance company.
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    Samsung offer a two year warranty on their phones. See here.

    The Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge has only been available since March 2016, so the OP's phone will still be within the manufacturer's warranty period.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Jun 17, 2:25 PM
    • 32,394 Posts
    • 27,156 Thanks
    custardy
    I purchased a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge around a year ago on their upgrade programme. You pay monthly for the phone through a finance company and you are eligible to upgrade every year directly through Samsung.

    Samsung have replaced the phone 2 or 3 times for different faults and I have had it replaced once through my phone insurance after I dropped it and broke the screen. However, they are refusing to honour the warranty for the latest problem, claiming that I have physically damaged the phone.

    A few months back I took my phone out of my jacket pocket and felt that the glass covering the rear camera was broken. I checked it and it looked like a bullet hole. When I got back to the office I showed a colleague and he said he had seen something on his news feed a couple of days previously about it happening to these phones. I did some research and indeed found a large number of articles - including some referring to a class action suit in the US - where people were having the same problem. Almost every person, though, was saying that Samsung were refusing the admit responsibility for it and were forcing customers to pay to repair the phone.

    I contacted Samsung and told them what had happened, what I'd found online and asked for it to be repaired under warranty. I was told over the phone there and then that it wouldn't be covered because I had physically damaged the phone. They hadn't even seen the phone and had made their mind up that I had damaged it.

    I have had lots of communication by phone and email with Samsung regarding this problem and they have said that they definitely will not honour the warranty. They still haven't told me how much it will cost to repair despite me asking several times, they have also failed to tell me what evidence the engineer found that pointed to physical damage despite me asking and in answer to my question as to how a small square of toughened glass could be broken in such a way without causing any damage whatsoever to the rest of the phone they have said it's not their place to explain that but that it wouldn't be possible to cause the damage without damaging the rest of the phone which is the point I was making!

    I have provided Samsung with evidence that this is a fault with the manufacture or design of the handset. I have pointed out that the internet is awash with reports of people having the same problem, that there is a class action suit in the US being launched for this problem and provided them with pictures I downloaded off the internet of people reporting the exact same issue and how they are identical.

    I am not willing to pay for repair of the handset when it is defective. I have been without this phone for months but have made several hundreds of pounds in payments for it. Samsung have been evasive and contradictory. What do you think my chances are of successfully obtaining judgement through the small claims court? I just want it repair for free and my costs refunded or for them to pay off the finance and I'll get a phone from someone else.
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    Forgetting all the talk of how many phones etc.
    You damaged the phone. Unless Samsung have it in the specs about its ability to survive drops,then you have little recourse.
    To be clear,you have dropped and damaged the phone twice now.
    After the first as sturdy case would have been my solution.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jun 17, 2:27 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    Samsung offer a two year warranty on their phones. See here.

    The Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge has only been available since March 2016, so the OP's phone will still be within the manufacturer's warranty period.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    but look at Samsungs point of view the OP has had 4 replacements and now after a 5th in 12 months. Any provider would find this suspicious
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 11th Jun 17, 2:29 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    but look at Samsungs point of view the OP has had 4 replacements and now after a 5th in 12 months. Any provider would find this suspicious
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    Did I say otherwise?

    You told us that the OP's phone may well be out of warranty.
    I corrected you on that point alone. That's all.
    • wonkotsane
    • By wonkotsane 11th Jun 17, 4:01 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    wonkotsane
    You're misreading or misunderstanding. I haven't dropped this phone, it's the replacement for the one I dropped. The small piece of glass that covers the read camera has shattered in a pattern like a bullet hole. There is no other damage to the handset, it's immaculate. I had one replacement because the phone stopped charging. I had another because of banding on the screen - a known problem with them, the person at Samsung only asked whether it was the grey, pink or green banding when I told him what the problem was. I can't remember if I had another replacement before I dropped the phone. The one I dropped is the only one I damaged myself and I didn't go to Samsung, I had it replaced under my mobile phone insurance. This handset I have now I have not damaged - it is immaculate with the exception of this broken piece of glass.

    To address a couple of points:

    1. The class action suit in the US is being brought by a law firm. They have enough appellants, they are preparing the case.
    2. The evidence I have is of course circumstantial - information and pictures gathered off the internet. However, it establishes a pattern. There is a thread on Samsung's own forum with hundreds of posts from people who have had the same experience. There are reports on newspaper websites and technology/industry websites and forums. There are pictures people have shared to show that they have had exactly the same damage to the glass and they all say they haven't dropped or otherwise damaged the phone. There seems to be a common theme with all the reports which is that the handset is in a case or bumper when it happens - as was the case with mine.

    Irrespective of how many replacements I've had - two sent to Samsung which clearly they've accepted as faulty and one insurance replacement - this handset is faulty and it should be covered by the warranty. I had this handset less than 6 months when the glass broke, the burden of proof is on the seller so should I be approaching the insurance company that replaced the handset?

    Here is a picture of the broken glass. As you can see the phone has no other damage. I provided Samsung with pictures other people have shared saying they've experienced the same issue and they look exactly the same. It's a bit of a coincidence that everyone who's had this problem wherever they are in the world has dropped their phone onto the same shaped object and hit the exact same part of the glass covering the camera from just the right height to break the glass but not too high that it's damaged the camera underneath and the aforementioned object is surrounded by something soft like sponge or foam to prevent damage to the rest of the handset and the don't know they've done it. How plausible does that sound to you?

    https://goo.gl/photos/uEavQiVfEm2DQS7RA
    Last edited by wonkotsane; 11-06-2017 at 4:03 PM.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    angryparcel
    You're misreading or misunderstanding. I haven't dropped this phone, it's the replacement for the one I dropped. The small piece of glass that covers the read camera has shattered in a pattern like a bullet hole. There is no other damage to the handset, it's immaculate. I had one replacement because the phone stopped charging. I had another because of banding on the screen - a known problem with them, the person at Samsung only asked whether it was the grey, pink or green banding when I told him what the problem was. I can't remember if I had another replacement before I dropped the phone. The one I dropped is the only one I damaged myself and I didn't go to Samsung, I had it replaced under my mobile phone insurance. This handset I have now I have not damaged - it is immaculate with the exception of this broken piece of glass.

    To address a couple of points:

    1. The class action suit in the US is being brought by a law firm. They have enough appellants, they are preparing the case.
    2. The evidence I have is of course circumstantial - information and pictures gathered off the internet. However, it establishes a pattern. There is a thread on Samsung's own forum with hundreds of posts from people who have had the same experience. There are reports on newspaper websites and technology/industry websites and forums. There are pictures people have shared to show that they have had exactly the same damage to the glass and they all say they haven't dropped or otherwise damaged the phone. There seems to be a common theme with all the reports which is that the handset is in a case or bumper when it happens - as was the case with mine.

    Irrespective of how many replacements I've had - two sent to Samsung which clearly they've accepted as faulty and one insurance replacement - this handset is faulty and it should be covered by the warranty. I had this handset less than 6 months when the glass broke, the burden of proof is on the seller so should I be approaching the insurance company that replaced the handset?

    Here is a picture of the broken glass. As you can see the phone has no other damage. I provided Samsung with pictures other people have shared saying they've experienced the same issue and they look exactly the same. It's a bit of a coincidence that everyone who's had this problem wherever they are in the world has dropped their phone onto the same shaped object and hit the exact same part of the glass covering the camera from just the right height to break the glass but not too high that it's damaged the camera underneath and the aforementioned object is surrounded by something soft like sponge or foam to prevent damage to the rest of the handset and the don't know they've done it. How plausible does that sound to you?

    https://goo.gl/photos/uEavQiVfEm2DQS7RA
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    so you have no actual evidence, pics and hearsay on the internet is NOT evidence.
    so apart from original phone you are on 2 or 3 from samsung and 1 from insurance, now you want another one.
    Can you not see the issue here with the amount of phones you have had in 12 months.
    It could be seen that you are mishandling them that is causing the damage in so many phones in a short period of time.

    I had this handset less than 6 months when the glass broke,
    maybe but this would go off the warranty, so after 6 months it is up to you to prove the fault is inherent, so you would need to seek an independent engineers report to show Samsung
    Last edited by angryparcel; 11-06-2017 at 4:19 PM.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Jun 17, 4:13 PM
    • 32,394 Posts
    • 27,156 Thanks
    custardy
    You're misreading or misunderstanding. I haven't dropped this phone, it's the replacement for the one I dropped. The small piece of glass that covers the read camera has shattered in a pattern like a bullet hole. There is no other damage to the handset, it's immaculate. I had one replacement because the phone stopped charging. I had another because of banding on the screen - a known problem with them, the person at Samsung only asked whether it was the grey, pink or green banding when I told him what the problem was. I can't remember if I had another replacement before I dropped the phone. The one I dropped is the only one I damaged myself and I didn't go to Samsung, I had it replaced under my mobile phone insurance. This handset I have now I have not damaged - it is immaculate with the exception of this broken piece of glass.

    To address a couple of points:

    1. The class action suit in the US is being brought by a law firm. They have enough appellants, they are preparing the case.
    2. The evidence I have is of course circumstantial - information and pictures gathered off the internet. However, it establishes a pattern. There is a thread on Samsung's own forum with hundreds of posts from people who have had the same experience. There are reports on newspaper websites and technology/industry websites and forums. There are pictures people have shared to show that they have had exactly the same damage to the glass and they all say they haven't dropped or otherwise damaged the phone. There seems to be a common theme with all the reports which is that the handset is in a case or bumper when it happens - as was the case with mine.

    Irrespective of how many replacements I've had - two sent to Samsung which clearly they've accepted as faulty and one insurance replacement - this handset is faulty and it should be covered by the warranty. I had this handset less than 6 months when the glass broke, the burden of proof is on the seller so should I be approaching the insurance company that replaced the handset?

    Here is a picture of the broken glass. As you can see the phone has no other damage. I provided Samsung with pictures other people have shared saying they've experienced the same issue and they look exactly the same. It's a bit of a coincidence that everyone who's had this problem wherever they are in the world has dropped their phone onto the same shaped object and hit the exact same part of the glass covering the camera from just the right height to break the glass but not too high that it's damaged the camera underneath and the aforementioned object is surrounded by something soft like sponge or foam to prevent damage to the rest of the handset and the don't know they've done it. How plausible does that sound to you?

    https://goo.gl/photos/uEavQiVfEm2DQS7RA
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    You actually raise an interesting point.
    That insurance replacement may give you a new warranty if it was brand new.
    Have you approached your insurance provider about the 'fault'?
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 11th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • 2,184 Posts
    • 1,768 Thanks
    naedanger
    I purchased a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge around a year ago on their upgrade programme. You pay monthly for the phone through a finance company and you are eligible to upgrade every year directly through Samsung.

    Samsung have replaced the phone 2 or 3 times for different faults and I have had it replaced once through my phone insurance after I dropped it and broke the screen. However, they are refusing to honour the warranty for the latest problem, claiming that I have physically damaged the phone.

    A few months back I took my phone out of my jacket pocket and felt that the glass covering the rear camera was broken. I checked it and it looked like a bullet hole. When I got back to the office I showed a colleague and he said he had seen something on his news feed a couple of days previously about it happening to these phones. I did some research and indeed found a large number of articles - including some referring to a class action suit in the US - where people were having the same problem. Almost every person, though, was saying that Samsung were refusing the admit responsibility for it and were forcing customers to pay to repair the phone.

    I contacted Samsung and told them what had happened, what I'd found online and asked for it to be repaired under warranty. I was told over the phone there and then that it wouldn't be covered because I had physically damaged the phone. They hadn't even seen the phone and had made their mind up that I had damaged it.

    I have had lots of communication by phone and email with Samsung regarding this problem and they have said that they definitely will not honour the warranty. They still haven't told me how much it will cost to repair despite me asking several times, they have also failed to tell me what evidence the engineer found that pointed to physical damage despite me asking and in answer to my question as to how a small square of toughened glass could be broken in such a way without causing any damage whatsoever to the rest of the phone they have said it's not their place to explain that but that it wouldn't be possible to cause the damage without damaging the rest of the phone which is the point I was making!

    I have provided Samsung with evidence that this is a fault with the manufacture or design of the handset. I have pointed out that the internet is awash with reports of people having the same problem, that there is a class action suit in the US being launched for this problem and provided them with pictures I downloaded off the internet of people reporting the exact same issue and how they are identical.

    I am not willing to pay for repair of the handset when it is defective. I have been without this phone for months but have made several hundreds of pounds in payments for it. Samsung have been evasive and contradictory. What do you think my chances are of successfully obtaining judgement through the small claims court? I just want it repair for free and my costs refunded or for them to pay off the finance and I'll get a phone from someone else.
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    My suggestion, read the following article:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

    Then check to see whether your purchase is covered by section 75. (EDIT: I am not sure it will be covered under section 75, partly because it was replaced under warranty.)

    If so then claim against the finance company. And if they don't provide you with a satisfactory solution ask for a copy of their complaints procedure and follow it to the end i.e. the Financial Ombudsman Service.

    If that is unsuccessful, or not an option in your case, you could still take the matter to the small claims court but this involves cost and risk. (As far as I am aware that the usual rules on evidence at a court hearing do not apply to small claims cases and it is up to the judge to decide what evidence to permit. So I think a judge might permit you to provide details of reports from the internet. In any event your own testimony is evidence. Of course it will be up to the judge to decide what weight to give either party's evidence.)
    Last edited by naedanger; 11-06-2017 at 5:28 PM.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 11th Jun 17, 5:25 PM
    • 3,161 Posts
    • 5,457 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    Did the case you have also include a camera protector? If not the it would be perfectly possible and in fact quite easy to damage the camera while the rest of the phone is left without a mark due to the protective case. The thing with glass is it doesn't necessarily break as soon as it is dropped or knocked but it could have been previously weakened significantly by a knock and just moving around in your pocket was enough to push the weakness over the edge.

    You also say the phone is otherwise immaculate but just in the one photo you've posted I can see a few different minor scuffs and scratches, that's a lot considering you say it's been kept in a protective case. Chances are whatever happened to cause that damage could have also cause weakness in the glass.
    • wonkotsane
    • By wonkotsane 11th Jun 17, 7:36 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    wonkotsane
    I contacted the finance company, they said take it up with Samsung. I haven't contacted the insurance company.

    The case didn't have a camera cover but I sent the case in with the phone to show that there was no damage to the case either.

    The scuffs and scratches are smudges and grime that have collected between the phone and case, it's immaculate.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 11th Jun 17, 7:42 PM
    • 2,184 Posts
    • 1,768 Thanks
    naedanger
    I contacted the finance company, they said take it up with Samsung.
    Originally posted by wonkotsane
    Well they would, obviously they would rather not deal with it.

    Personally I would demand they repair it stating they were jointly liable under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Then if they deny liability review their reasoning. (If it does not seem valid then I would proceed with a formal complaint. If they did seem to have valid reasoning then I would drop that approach.)
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