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  • FIRST POST
    • Andrew Ryan 89
    • By Andrew Ryan 89 11th Jun 17, 2:04 AM
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    Andrew Ryan 89
    Installing a smart-thermostat when you don't have a thermostat
    • #1
    • 11th Jun 17, 2:04 AM
    Installing a smart-thermostat when you don't have a thermostat 11th Jun 17 at 2:04 AM
    Hi all and excuse my nativity in this field. I have a relatively old boiler (probably more than 10 years old) and how I control my heating is by manually turn on the boiler and turning knobs on the radiators. I want to install a smart thermostat not in the same room as the boiler and wanted to know if that can be done relatively simply as I currently don't have a thermostat.

    Edit - Thanks guys for the responses. One other questions I forgot to ask. The boiler has dial for the radiator, I am assuming this controls the heat? As mentioned, I don't have a thermostat and control the heat of the radiators by twisting nobs on the radiator. With a smart thermostat in this situation, will it still control the temperature in the house?
    Last edited by Andrew Ryan 89; 08-11-2017 at 10:55 PM.
Page 1
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 11th Jun 17, 6:15 AM
    • 36,059 Posts
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    silvercar
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:15 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:15 AM
    We had hive installed to work with a boiler that had no thermostat. Worked fine.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 11th Jun 17, 7:36 AM
    • 611 Posts
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    Alex1983
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 7:36 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Jun 17, 7:36 AM
    Easy enough, you'll have your timer replaced with a wireless receiver and then a smart thermostat will communicate with it wirelessly.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 11th Jun 17, 10:50 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 10:50 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Jun 17, 10:50 AM
    Are you sure there is no controller/timer/thermostat?

    should relatively simple once you have the details about what you do have.
    • I have spoken
    • By I have spoken 11th Jun 17, 1:30 PM
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    I have spoken
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:30 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 1:30 PM
    >I control my heating is by manually turn on the boiler and turning knobs on the radiators<

    Doesn't sound like it'll work, you need thermostatic valves and a basic controller with a "call for heat input" to the boiler to use a smart unit
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 11th Jun 17, 5:24 PM
    • 11,622 Posts
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    Strider590
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:24 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:24 PM
    You don't need a smart thermostat, all they really do is put a stop to stupid people who don't know how a thermostat works.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/10/nation-buffoons-thermostats-central-heating

    My parents don't know how to work a thermostat and I have to keep reminding the GF that turning it up to 30 degrees does not make the house warm up faster.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 11th Jun 17, 5:36 PM
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    Le_Kirk
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:36 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:36 PM
    You don't need a smart thermostat, all they really do is put a stop to stupid people who don't know how a thermostat works.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    The OP doesn't have any sort of control for the boiler apart from manually turning it on and off so would not be subject to the thermostat gremlin (and I wholly sympathise with those who have to live with thermostat twiddlers!!)
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 11th Jun 17, 5:42 PM
    • 11,622 Posts
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    Strider590
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:42 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jun 17, 5:42 PM
    The OP doesn't have any sort of control for the boiler apart from manually turning it on and off so would not be subject to the thermostat gremlin (and I wholly sympathise with those who have to live with thermostat twiddlers!!)
    Originally posted by Le_Kirk
    Well what i'm saying is that a simple £30 wireless thermostat in series with the switch that turns it on, would solve the issue.

    And yes, if it has a switch to turn on, then it can be thermostat controlled, because that's all a thermostat is, an automatic switch.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 11th Jun 17, 6:01 PM
    • 611 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:01 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jun 17, 6:01 PM
    Wether you have a timer now or it's wired permanently straight to the boiler, a new timer/ thermostat can be fitted very easily.

    Smart thermostats aren't for everyone, I personally have hive and use it remotely a lot as we are frequently staying out unexpectedly and can turn the heating off which saves us from wasting energy when we're not there.
    • Andrew Ryan 89
    • By Andrew Ryan 89 11th Jun 17, 9:19 PM
    • 503 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    Andrew Ryan 89
    Are you sure there is no controller/timer/thermostat?

    should relatively simple once you have the details about what you do have.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    There is a timer on the boiler and a dial with a flame.

    Thank you to for all the other responses too.
    • Andrew Ryan 89
    • By Andrew Ryan 89 11th Jun 17, 9:28 PM
    • 503 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    Andrew Ryan 89
    Are you sure there is no controller/timer/thermostat?

    should relatively simple once you have the details about what you do have.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    You don't need a smart thermostat, all they really do is put a stop to stupid people who don't know how a thermostat works.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/10/nation-buffoons-thermostats-central-heating

    My parents don't know how to work a thermostat and I have to keep reminding the GF that turning it up to 30 degrees does not make the house warm up faster.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    I skimmed through the article and not getting what people find difficult about using a thermostat...

    Can someone elaborate?
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 11th Jun 17, 10:21 PM
    • 11,622 Posts
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    Strider590
    I skimmed through the article and not getting what people find difficult about using a thermostat...

    Can someone elaborate?
    Originally posted by Andrew Ryan 89
    I think I explained.........

    Some people think that turning it right the way up will heat the house faster, when in fact all it does is overheat the house and waste gas/electricity.
    It's the same in offices up and down the country, something called "aircon wars", with people constantly turning it up to maximum and then when it's too hot they turn it minimum, rinse/repeat all day long.

    Some people just cannot grasp what a thermostat actually does.

    So in reference to smart thermostats, once you get over the gimmicky stuff, all they do is stop people messing with the temperature constantly, mostly because they "learn" what temperature you want as an average and they then increase/decrease it by very small amounts, and I suspect they selectively start to ignore user input when the user tries to turn it up to maximum or down to minimum, thus minimising wasted energy.

    A little bit like automatic headlights on a car and more recently DRLs, instead of educating drivers to use their headlights in fog/snow, they simply compensate for stupidity by removing the human element.
    Last edited by Strider590; 11-06-2017 at 10:29 PM.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Jun 17, 10:35 PM
    • 30,311 Posts
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    getmore4less
    With heating systems.

    The key addition to timer + stat is a programmable stat.

    This addition gets more than timed on/off to a single temp.

    you can profile the temp to you usage.

    Most newer stats include hysteresis algorithms(off the shelf chips) to allow preheat and cool down periods.

    there are plenty of standalone options with the main other features like holiday mode, boost...

    The smart addition is more about convenience, handy if your schedules are unpredictable so you need to change your temp/time profile. or just turn it off when you go out and back on when on your way home.

    Som try to be clever and use GPS(no good if the pub is too close)

    I got a system that also allows us to do a temp/time profile on the hot water.

    any improvement to an existing system should be simple as ultimately it is on/off although some systems have cycling restrictions that override the on/off

    The next upgrade many can do is Zoning larger properties amy already have more than one zone that needs multiple stats.

    one option to upgrade a system to zones is to use programmable radiator stats they give you per room control.

    depending on your property and use cases
    a standalone programmable stat may be enough <£50,
    a single zone smart stat will be a more £100-£200
    full blown radiator zoned system loads more.

    you might also want to consider if you want integrated to other smart house stuff that may steer your choice.
    • Andrew Ryan 89
    • By Andrew Ryan 89 8th Nov 17, 10:55 PM
    • 503 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    Andrew Ryan 89
    Thanks guys for the responses. One other questions I forgot to ask. The boiler has dial for the radiator, I am assuming this controls the heat? As mentioned, I don't have a thermostat and control the heat of the radiators by twisting nobs on the radiator. With a smart thermostat in this situation, will it still control the temperature in the house?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Nov 17, 6:32 PM
    • 30,311 Posts
    • 18,126 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Thanks guys for the responses. One other questions I forgot to ask. The boiler has dial for the radiator, I am assuming this controls the heat? As mentioned, I don't have a thermostat and control the heat of the radiators by twisting nobs on the radiator. With a smart thermostat in this situation, will it still control the temperature in the house?
    Originally posted by Andrew Ryan 89
    The boiler dial will be to control the water temp at the boiler.


    don't think you ever said what you do have for boiler and controls or what sort of nobs are on the radiators(thermostatic or not).


    You need to document your current system and post it.

    depending what nobs you have been fiddling with you might need to balance the system.
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