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    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 9th Jun 17, 7:43 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    latest update in case law - Japanese Knotweed
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:43 PM
    latest update in case law - Japanese Knotweed 9th Jun 17 at 7:43 PM
    It's chargeable to get the full gist of this - but....

    www.propertylawuk.net/cgi-bin/pluk.py/article?PageRequest=monthlyupdatenuisance.html

    re any JK that has come through from someone else's property infringing on one's "quiet enjoyment" of property if a neighbouring property allows this to come through onto one's own property.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
Page 1
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 9th Jun 17, 10:09 PM
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    Davesnave
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 17, 10:09 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 17, 10:09 PM
    It will be interesting to see what, if any effect this case has, even if we can't see it all now.

    Meanwhile, there was a sobering article in this month's Country Gardener, reminding us that having laws is one thing, and getting them to work for us is another:

    https://issuu.com/countrygardener/docs/devon_country_gardener_june_2017

    P22.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jun 17, 8:16 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #3
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:16 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:16 AM
    As you say Dave indeed - and, living in the part of the country I do, you can imagine the extra frustrations re the local authorities..
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Jun 17, 8:32 AM
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    EachPenny
    • #4
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:32 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:32 AM
    Meanwhile, there was a sobering article in this month's Country Gardener, reminding us that having laws is one thing, and getting them to work for us is another
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Interesting article and a good example of how modern local government works. Unfortunately with stretched budgets many local authorities won't exercise enforcement powers unless of course they are enforcement powers which generate cash.

    Making sure people are being good neighbours and citizens - dealing with 'things' in the garden, overflowing bins, hedges and trees overgrowing footways is low priority because it takes a lot of work and generates little or no income. Issuing parking and moving traffic penalties, and litter fines, on the other hand is top priority because if it is done correctly it generates oodles of cash. Not that I'm condoning those latter behaviours of course!
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jun 17, 8:58 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #5
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:58 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:58 AM
    This is what we're up against indeed - but imagine the frustration of watching non-existent money spent on other things because there is a law that says it must be if someone complains that it isn't. But then watching the same local authorities complaining there is no money for a necessity.

    So - you get the message that local authorities will find the money for something if a few particularly vocal people threaten to "have the law on them" if they don't and/or local councillors personally want it themselves.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • mysterymurdoch
    • By mysterymurdoch 10th Jun 17, 1:39 PM
    • 136 Posts
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    mysterymurdoch
    • #6
    • 10th Jun 17, 1:39 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jun 17, 1:39 PM
    I think you should stop worrying about JKW - it seems to be a bit of an obsession of yours! It's easily controllable, easy to contain and doesn't raze buildings to the ground despite what the Daily Fail tells you.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
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    EachPenny
    • #7
    • 10th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
    I think you should stop worrying about JKW - it seems to be a bit of an obsession of yours!
    Originally posted by mysterymurdoch
    It's easily controllable, easy to contain...
    Originally posted by mysterymurdoch
    Are we talking about the same JKW then? The fact it is so difficult to control and contain is what makes it the invasive weed property developers, local authorities, Network Rail, C&RT, riparian owners and others are most concerned about. If it could just be cut down like Giant Hogweed then most people would just be saying "What an attractive shrub, can I have a cutting please?".

    ...and doesn't raze buildings to the ground despite what the Daily Fail tells you.
    Originally posted by mysterymurdoch
    People coming across JKW in an engineering environment are usually gobsmacked at the destructive power this plant has. I've dealt with it myself and have seen those effects first hand. Yes, it is unlikely that whole terraces of houses will crumble with no warning - but in a domestic setting once it is established nearby then you only have a limited amount of time before you will have a major financial problem on your hands.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • cajef
    • By cajef 10th Jun 17, 7:39 PM
    • 4,549 Posts
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    cajef
    • #8
    • 10th Jun 17, 7:39 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jun 17, 7:39 PM

    . I've dealt with it myself and have seen those effects first hand.
    but in a domestic setting once it is established nearby then you only have a limited amount of time before you will have a major financial problem on your hands.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Cannot agree, more scaremongering, I have first hand experience of JKW in a domestic situation and providing it is treated properly and regularly using the correct available over the counter chemicals it can be eradicated.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5531656&highlight=japanese+knotwe ed

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71364894&postcount=13
    Last edited by cajef; 10-06-2017 at 7:48 PM.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Jun 17, 8:27 PM
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    Davesnave
    • #9
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:27 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jun 17, 8:27 PM
    Cannot agree, more scaremongering, I have first hand experience of JKW in a domestic situation and providing it is treated properly and regularly using the correct available over the counter chemicals it can be eradicated.
    Originally posted by cajef
    Of course it can, but once a mortgage lender gets wind of it, you're in a different ball-game, especially in a domestic situation where several neighbours with less interest in control may have it.

    They won't be interested in your DIY approach.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 10th Jun 17, 10:29 PM
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    daveyjp
    Of course it can, but once a mortgage lender gets wind of it, you're in a different ball-game, especially in a domestic situation where several neighbours with less interest in control may have it.

    They won't be interested in your DIY approach.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Too many people making money out of it and mortgage lenders who don't have a clue so take advice from those making money out of it!

    As an example a 5 year 'insurance backed' treatment plan offered for £10-15k to secure a mortgage, when in reality it was treated for about £500 last year and this year may require one visit for which the contractor will charge no more than £100.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Jun 17, 10:46 PM
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    EachPenny
    Cannot agree, more scaremongering, I have first hand experience of JKW in a domestic situation and providing it is treated properly and regularly using the correct available over the counter chemicals it can be eradicated.
    Originally posted by cajef
    Yes, in three to four years the treated growth can be beaten into dormancy, but not necessarily eradicated. Even if you can treat the whole area of growth and make it dormant, you may still not have won the battle yet.

    The issue, especially in urban areas, is being able to treat the whole area of growth. You can treat your garden, but what if the neighbours don't want to bother? You can treat everything in your garden, but you will achieve little if it simply ducks under the fence again and repeats the process.

    There was a time where people would say things like "Cannot agree, more scaremongering" about asbestos - but I would much rather find asbestos on my property than JKW. Asbestos tends to stay where it is put, doesn't normally get bigger, and usually can be left alone without any concern. If you decide to get rid of it, it takes a few hours or days and it has gone, no trace left. JKW is the opposite in every respect.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 10th Jun 17, 11:31 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    Makes you wonder how there are so many buildings still standing in Japan.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Jun 17, 11:52 PM
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    EachPenny
    Makes you wonder how there are so many buildings still standing in Japan.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    In Japan JKW has natural predators that help to keep it under some kind of control. People are working on whether it is safe to release them on the UK JKW crop.

    In Japan it is likely they were aware of the plant's growth abilities and unlike our Victorian gardeners would probably make sure it was growing in the right places
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 11th Jun 17, 1:55 AM
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    Lord Baltimore
    In Japan JKW has natural predators that help to keep it under some kind of control. People are working on whether it is safe to release them on the UK JKW crop.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I think that has in fact been done in the UK although the sites of release are being kept under wraps.
    all your base are belong to us
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 11th Jun 17, 5:15 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    I think that has in fact been done in the UK although the sites of release are being kept under wraps.
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore
    That natural predator has indeed been released into the wild here in Britain and with no unwanted "side effects" noticed from it. It's having some degree of success - but, as I understand it, is only weakening JK and not killing it.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 11th Jun 17, 7:00 AM
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    Davesnave
    Too many people making money out of it and mortgage lenders who don't have a clue so take advice from those making money out of it!
    Originally posted by daveyjp
    I don't doubt you're correct, and as someone who can do the treatrment and buy mortgage-free, JK wouldn't bother me, but lenders dictate the conditions for advancing money, so they'll do as they choose.

    The point is, if someone's trying to sell a property blighted by JK, they'll have a very limited pool of buyers without paying a king's ransom to get a certificate.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 11th Jun 17, 7:24 AM
    • 3,780 Posts
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    DaftyDuck
    I have asbestos and Japanese Knotweed on my land. I'd rather have the Knotweed every time.

    Sure, JK is a problem, but it has been inflated out of all proportion to the damage done, and the risk of damage. Like asbestos, damp, subsidence, much of the response (not all) is hysterical and unwarranted. That is reflected in mortgage responses to all of the above... They have to reflect the market, and the market reflects the popular opinion.

    "My" JK really belongs to the Council - comes from their gully-cleaning spreading it. Their idea of control is a vague spray near where it is, once a year. One year of intensive treatment has reduced the area to less than a third, and has completely killed (yes, verified professionally) the remaining two-thirds. By the end of next year it will be eradicated from a fifteen metre stand for a cost of less than a fiver, time excluded. No health risk (you can eat it!), no real hassle.

    Admittedly, as a scientist, I find the chemicals and using them less worrying, and the layout of the land isn't difficult (roadside, or mine). It isn't the plant that causes the real problem, it's the legalities of treating it.

    Asbestos kills. It is very difficult to do a clean disposal, and is fraught with legal restrictions. Subsidence is very costly to fix (when it really does exist), and often has the same legal difficulties as both the above. Rising damp is generally solvable with a bit of nous and elbow grease (I've bought a number of older properties with reported serious damp, and sold none with it).

    Sadly, there is money to be made through ignorance of all the above.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 11th Jun 17, 7:50 AM
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    EachPenny
    Admittedly, as a scientist, I find the chemicals and using them less worrying, and the layout of the land isn't difficult (roadside, or mine). It isn't the plant that causes the real problem, it's the legalities of treating it.
    Originally posted by DaftyDuck
    This being one of the main areas of geniune concern. Use of herbicides in close proximity to watercourses is fraught with difficulties and if the gully cleaning you mention is associated with some form of ditch or stream then the council's "idea of control is a vague spray near where it is, once a year" is probably unlawful... in fact doing some vague spraying even if there isn't a watercourse nearby is probably pushing their luck.

    For the DIYers - i.e. the people not paying a fortune for professional control of JKW the main weapon is glyphosate-based products. Like neonics, glyphosate is under attack from people who consider it a risk to health and the environment. Anyone who thinks that glyphosate will never be banned (at least for DIY use) should study the case supporting the ban on domestic use of creosote - the most effective product for the job and completely safe to humans and most other life if used in accordance with instructions. If you believe glyphosate will not be banned because there is no suitable alternative then you have little idea of the lack of understanding of scientific issues in our system of democracy.

    So as with asbestos (and creosote) - when the DIYer is banned from using the most effective treatment for JKW then what do you do? There will be no realistic option but to employ an expensive contractor who - in the absence of DIY competition - will be able to jack their prices up even more.

    A ban on glyphosate is by no means certain, but before dismissing concerns about JKW as scaremongering it is important to consider how the situation might change if other external factors come in to play.

    Sadly, there is money to be made through ignorance of all the above.
    Originally posted by DaftyDuck
    There's always money to be made through ignorance - that's why the people who make laws on the use of chemicals like glyphosate get paid so much.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • mysterymurdoch
    • By mysterymurdoch 12th Jun 17, 10:05 AM
    • 136 Posts
    • 106 Thanks
    mysterymurdoch
    I treat it professionally. It's not the demon people think it is.
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