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    • Epeck
    • By Epeck 9th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
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    Epeck
    Clarification on 'no DSS'
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:12 PM
    Clarification on 'no DSS' 9th Jun 17 at 5:12 PM
    Hi,

    I'm looking to move to another rented property closer to family. I work part-time and claim Working and Child tax credits. Does this come under DSS or is it just Housing Benefit that does? I've searched the net for answers but not finding the answer I'm looking for 🙄

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 9th Jun 17, 5:21 PM
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    Pixie5740
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:21 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:21 PM
    That's probably because the Department for Social Security was dissolved in 2001.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • bob bank spanker
    • By bob bank spanker 9th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
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    bob bank spanker
    • #3
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
    Doesn't exist.

    Say you aren't "DSS". How on earth would they disprove it?
    • flashg67
    • By flashg67 9th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
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    flashg67
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
    If it's a private landlord, it will depend on circumstances. Some BTL mortgages won't allow non-working tenants. Also, buildings insurance tends to be higher for non working tenants.

    Working, but claiming tax credits is often ok, worth asking the agent or landlord in your situation.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 9th Jun 17, 6:00 PM
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    00ec25
    • #5
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:00 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:00 PM
    "no DSS" is, as you, realise a generic term but there is no cast iron definition of it because in the 2 main contexts in which it is used the meaning of it is down to the interpretation of either the LL or their lender, and neither of them will publish what they think it means

    a) Lenders may, for example, impose in their mortgage terms and conditions a no "benefit claimant" rule as a condition of granting the mortgage to the LL. How the lender defines "benefits" is something you would have to ask the lender - which is obviously impossible for you to do

    b) landlords may have a prejudiced view ranging from anyone who cannot pay their way purely from salary, through anyone who has some tax credits to anyone who depends on housing benefit to cover the majority of the rent. Again there is no legal definition of "benefits" and unless you ask each LL you won't know what they think they mean
    • Chapuys
    • By Chapuys 9th Jun 17, 6:15 PM
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    Chapuys
    • #6
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:15 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:15 PM
    This is an interesting article from The Guardian about 'No DSS'. https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2012/may/02/tenants-housing-benefit-private-landlords

    The author, David Lawrenson narrows it down to 7 reasons:

    The seven reasons why landlords won't let to tenants on benefits
    First published on Wednesday 2 May 2012 09.32 BST. By David Lawrenson.
    ...
    1. Payment in arrears
    When letting to tenants who depend on the allowance, assuming the LHA (Local Housing Allowance) can even be paid direct to the landlord (which is not always the case following changes to the system in 2008), the payments are nearly always made in arrears. This compares unfavourably with a private letting where the rent is paid a calendar monthly in advance, which means a better cash flow for landlords.

    2. Deposits
    Tenants who are dependent on housing benefit often do not have a deposit they can hand over to the landlord to protect. And even where local government can help with a deposit, private landlords often tell us that council schemes are cumbersome, slow to administer and claim against in the event of damages caused by tenants.

    3. Red tape
    The administration of housing benefit can be slow and involve lots of form filling. Payments can start and stop without notice, and councils retain the right to try to claw back past payments from landlords if it later emerges that their tenant was claiming fraudulently – even if the landlord was unaware of a change in the tenant's circumstances.

    4. Attitudes
    However wrongly, a minority of private sector landlords still believe that tenants claiming housing benefit are more likely miss rental payments or to not look after properties properly. We are working to change that perception.

    5. Insurance traps
    Buildings and contents insurance premiums are often higher where a landlord lets to people dependent on the Local Housing Allowance. Sometimes insurance is refused to landlords altogether. Central government must challenge the insurance industry on whether such inflated premiums are justified by claims records.

    6. Buy-to-let mortgages
    Scandalously, some buy-to-let mortgage loan terms and conditions do not allow landlords to let to tenants on any kind of benefits or income support. Government should challenge the lenders on this.

    7. Constant change
    Finally, the array of changes to the housing benefit system, rates of payment and rules over the last four years has left landlords feeling confused. Rather than trying to understand something that keeps changing, many private landlords simply opt out instead.

    ...
    Anything I say in no way constitutes financial advice and anything you do is your own decision.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 9th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
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    theartfullodger
    • #7
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:21 PM
    Bonkers:. MOST - more than 50% - of UK adults are on one sort of benefit or other.

    The ignorance & stupidity of some landlords, agents & others is breathtaking.

    Best regards
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 9th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    • 1,347 Posts
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    parking_question_chap
    • #8
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    Bonkers:. MOST - more than 50% - of UK adults are on one sort of benefit or other.

    The ignorance & stupidity of some landlords, agents & others is breathtaking.

    Best regards
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Shouldnt mean a landlord is forced to rent to them.

    If there was a choice between employed person with no kids, and a DSS person with kids its a no brainer for me.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Jun 17, 8:02 PM
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 8:02 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 8:02 PM
    'No DSS' means exactly what the person who writes in their advert believes it to mean.

    All you can do is ask (either what they meant, or whether they'll grant you a tenancy).
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 9th Jun 17, 9:13 PM
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    Cakeguts
    I think you could read this as someone who can't pay all of the rent and everything else on their wages and tax credits but needs extra money from somewhere else. If you can afford to pay all the rent by using your pay and tax credits then I can't see why there would be a problem. The problem will only arise if you don't earn enough with your pay and tax credits to pay the rent and all your other costs without claiming anything else. No DSS is often shorthand for people needing some sort of benefit to allow them to afford the rent.
    • Epeck
    • By Epeck 9th Jun 17, 9:59 PM
    • 2 Posts
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    Epeck
    Thanks everyone! This really clears things up for me. I currently private rent (deposit paid and full rent payments are made on time monthly) I'm assuming this will help with the decision of the agent/landlord.

    Thanks again for the replies!
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jun 17, 9:52 AM
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    Pixie5740
    Shouldnt mean a landlord is forced to rent to them.

    If there was a choice between employed person with no kids, and a DSS person with kids its a no brainer for me.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap
    And what pray tell is a "DSS person?" How are you defining a "DSS person?" You do realise that someone in employment with no children can still be in receipt of benefits.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jun 17, 9:54 AM
    • 10,604 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    I think you could read this as someone who can't pay all of the rent and everything else on their wages and tax credits but needs extra money from somewhere else. If you can afford to pay all the rent by using your pay and tax credits then I can't see why there would be a problem. The problem will only arise if you don't earn enough with your pay and tax credits to pay the rent and all your other costs without claiming anything else. No DSS is often shorthand for people needing some sort of benefit to allow them to afford the rent.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    What are tax credits if not a benefit?
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Jun 17, 10:36 AM
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    EachPenny
    If there was a choice between employed person with no kids, and a DSS person with kids its a no brainer for me.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap
    If you take the 'kids' out of the equation then the choice isn't so simple.

    The 'employed person' you've given preference to today could be a 'DSS person' next week, there is no such thing as job security for most people these days.

    The 'employed person' could also have been living a life of luxury on credit supported by their income, and when the income stops they will be in a very different position to the 'DSS person' who is used to living on a budget and managing within their means.

    The 'no brainer' might not look such a great decision with hindsight.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 10th Jun 17, 10:41 AM
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    Tigsteroonie
    The 'employed person' you've given preference to today could be a 'DSS person' next week, there is no such thing as job security for most people these days.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Indeed, that was our personal experience - rented a house advertisied as "no DSS" when we had two wages and claimed no benefits; subsequently both non-working, so claiming all benefits including HB for a while; finished the tenancy with a mix of one salary and some benefits (CTC). We did't tell our LL of the change in circumstances at any time - there was nothing in the Tenancy Agreement to say that we had to let him know.
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    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 10th Jun 17, 10:45 AM
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    EachPenny
    I currently private rent (deposit paid and full rent payments are made on time monthly) I'm assuming this will help with the decision of the agent/landlord.
    Originally posted by Epeck
    Sorry to say, but this may not make any difference at all - whether firstly the agent, and secondly the landlord - are willing to consider someone on 'benefits' is an irrational choice based on their personal opinions. If they have convinced themselves the first thing you'll do is move in with a pack of Pit Bulls and smother the outside walls with satellite dishes then you'll have no hope, even if you have an excellent renting history and can pay large amounts of money up front.

    The main thing to do is not to take any rejection to heart - it is not personal, it is likely to just be their prejudice, or a genuine fear of what might happen if they get 'bad tenants'.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jun 17, 12:09 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    'No DSS' means exactly what the person who writes in their advert believes it to mean.

    All you can do is ask (either what they meant, or whether they'll grant you a tenancy).
    Originally posted by G_M
    I'd certainly ask for clarification of their personal meaning too in your position.

    Personally - I'd take "no DSS" as meaning = no unemployed person. But tax credits is income that is dependant on the whim of government policy - so they may just include that.

    After all - there are people out there that will call pensions "benefits" and that includes the government. Whereas that's certainly not how most of us regard them - more "deferred salary" - and I certainly wouldnt hesitate to take on someone on a pension as a tenant if I were a landlady.
    ploughing my own furrow...the rain begins with a single drop...

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    • Kim kim
    • By Kim kim 10th Jun 17, 12:19 PM
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    Kim kim
    Bonkers:. MOST - more than 50% - of UK adults are on one sort of benefit or other.

    The ignorance & stupidity of some landlords, agents & others is breathtaking.

    Best regards
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Really? More than 50%
    Do you have a source for that?
    I guess that must include pensions?
    • mysterymurdoch
    • By mysterymurdoch 10th Jun 17, 1:55 PM
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    mysterymurdoch
    Well considering almost all families I know claim their £20/week child benefit...
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 10th Jun 17, 2:25 PM
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    silverwhistle
    The main thing to do is not to take any rejection to heart - it is not personal, it is likely to just be their prejudice, or a genuine fear of what might happen if they get 'bad tenants'.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Or their experience! So I'd say 'no housing associations' or 'no pot smokers' from when I rented out my home for a period..
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