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    • Olivia24
    • By Olivia24 9th Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Olivia24
    Advice for someone struggling with info overload
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    Advice for someone struggling with info overload 9th Jun 17 at 1:18 PM
    Hello,

    I wasn't going to post a thread because I know so many people get told about looking at the newbies thread for answers. I have, however, tried doing this and I feel as though my head is on overload and I'm not understanding any of it, or can't find the parts that relate to me. So please excuse me if this need for advice may appear stupid, I just need an answer for my own peace of mind!

    Ok, so I shall try and include everything.

    I received a parking ticket on my windscreen on 03/05/2017 for 'unauthorised parking' on private property. I know a lot of people say not to pay them and after trying to find advice (I unfortunately hadn't seen the newbies thread at this point) I followed the instructions found on the money saving expert website, I can't include a link as I'm new.

    This advice seemed to differ to what some of the newbies thread suggests, however I shall continue.

    The charge was £100 (£60 if within 14 days) and issued from four season security, who are registered with the IPC. I've never recieved a fine before, and I actually feel I had grounds to appeal so used the template from the money saving expert post for informal appeals (I shall include appeal email further on) and sent it to the email provided on the ticket for the appeals procedure - now I was sceptical about including my address so didn't, however here's my first concern, have I shot my self in the foot in my appeal by using the phrases 'I parked' and 'my car'? This is because I read about the keeper vs the driver so there's worry number one I need cleared up.

    I did not receive a response within 28 days, the ticket says to not assume it's cancelled and contact if I've had no reply. So obviously, that's what I decided to do (is that another oopsie?) I phoned the number and said I hadn't received a response and the person said they would phone me back regarding it. They didn't. I then sent an email to the same one used for appeals saying I hadn't received a response to my appeal or my phone call, they replied with 'no appeal was recieved for this charge'. I then responded again, forwarding the original email that was sent and said I expect it to be dealt with as though it had been recieved. They responded once again saying no appeal was recieved and they could reduce the fine if I wished(funnily enough the online ticket payment has been out of use for around a month so how they actually expect people to pay regardless is beyond me). I rejected this offer (obviously) and the final email from them said I am outside the appeal window and should now liase with debt recovery plus (give me a second before you automatically start yelling ) who I've not heard anything from so obviously don't even know where that came from.

    Ok, so here are my concerns/questions I need answering.

    1) I have it on record I sent the appeal to them in my emails so do I need to do anything regarding the lack of response/unfair appeal process?
    2) What, in theory, will happen next? Do I receive a notice to keeper or will it go straight to the debt recovery plus? (If they get my address somehow) and what should be my next steps to either of those?
    3) I've seen a lot of concerning things regarding the IPC vs BPA so am I likely to be taken to court over it? And will the fine continue to increase?
    4) just general advice on anything will be appreciated, I really am in the dark regarding all this. Obviously I'm outside the 28 day window.

    Thank you for reading, apologies it's so long I just wanted to try and make sure I was detailed enough to avoid you having to ask me questions.

    Olivia

    Here find attached the email I sent for the appeal
    Dear sirs,

    You issued me with a parking ticket on 03/05/2017 but I believe it was unfairly issued. Reference number (included) car registration number (included).

    I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons.

    Insufficient signage.

    1) The area in which I parked had no signage or markings on the floor to suggest this particular zone was 'unauthorised parking'

    (Included photo of area parked, my car was not in the photo)


    I parked at 16:15, the issue time of the ticket was 16:19, I was picking up a resident who lives in the flats above this space (street name included) and had to help her with a suitcase, I was back to my car by 16:30. I have her as a witness for this, for where I parked and for how long. The car was not blocking a property, a garage or any entrances/exits. She's also informed me cars are regularly parked there.

    2) There were other vehicles around where I was parked when I arrived, that were still there after I left, that were clearly parked in a zone that is unauthorised. They were not given a parking charge. As there is signage in the zones where they were parked, unlike where I was parked, I believe there should also be a complaint forwarded for the unfair actions of the parking attendant.
    (Included photos of both vehicles)
    Neither vehicle had a permit displayed or received a charge. Both vehicles are blocking areas with signs, or, like the van, next to a sign and blocking a row of garages.

    Regardless of this, the zone I parked in clearly has no wall signs or floor markings so I believed this area would be ok to park in, especially for the short length of time my vehicle was unattended. The signage of this area is insufficient, therefore I will not be paying your demand for payment of £100 (£60 if within 14 days).

    Please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only email you will receive from me until you answer the specific points I have raised.

    Yours faithfully,

    (My full name)
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Jun 17, 2:40 PM
    • 16,110 Posts
    • 20,176 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 17, 2:40 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 17, 2:40 PM
    by appealing and using those words they know who was driving , yes

    so as they know who the driver was, the PPC has up to 6 years to try a court case using MCOL (not any DCA debt collectors - these can be ignored)

    check the BMPA zendesk to see the liklihood (or not) of any court case

    I am afraid that they have you hooked for 6 years and will try and frighten you into paying, plus the PPC could try a court case , where a typical loss is between £150 and £225 (if they win)

    yes its unfair, but its an unregulated sc@mmers paradise that the government has allowed to mushroom and done nothing about
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jun 17, 4:48 PM
    • 14,977 Posts
    • 23,529 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 9th Jun 17, 4:48 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jun 17, 4:48 PM
    Know your enemy!

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203543562-Four-Seasons-Security-Ltd

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Four_Seasons_Security.html

    While nothing is guaranteed, I wouldn't lose any sleep about 'court'. Small fry operator, probably hasn't much by way of a back office function, hence their lack of professional approach in dealing with your appeal.

    Don't be alarmed if DRP become involved - they can't do anything but write letters.

    Ride this out.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jun 17, 7:30 PM
    • 50,736 Posts
    • 64,129 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:30 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:30 PM
    I followed the instructions found on the money saving expert website,
    Another newbie let down by the MSE 'appeal private parking tickets' useless article (sorry MSE towers but we've told you it is awful). You are costing people money, newbies are throwing away winning appeal and defence points by using the terrible letter template that goes on about what happened, no loss (no chance!) and blabs about who parked the blinking vehicle.

    Please MSE. PLEASE. Sort it. Can't be right that we have to keep rescuing people from MSE advice.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Olivia24
    • By Olivia24 11th Jun 17, 3:56 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Olivia24
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 3:56 PM
    Thankyou!
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 17, 3:56 PM
    Thanks for the replies! It is a shame I hadn't seen the newbies post but I guess that's just lesson learned.

    I guess I shall have to ride it out!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Jun 17, 4:24 PM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 17,007 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jun 17, 4:24 PM
    ..... I followed the instructions found on the money saving expert website, I can't include a link as I'm new.

    This advice seemed to differ to what some of the newbies thread suggests......
    Originally posted by Olivia24
    Here is the link:


    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets


    Interesting to see that the article states its had a major update in March and asks for comments in a thread on the MSE Forum.


    In fact MSE have LOCKED that thread so that no comments can be made. This compounds the issue of the bad advice in the article. (And note the disclaimer anyone using the advice contained in the article must agree MSE aren't liable for the ensuing damage acting on the advice causes!)


    The last posts from MSE posters criticising the article were in February - thus newbies like the OP can be excused for thinking the MSE article dated March is now gospel!
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