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    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 9th Jun 17, 7:11 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Get ready for a Conservative/DUP coalition
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:11 AM
    Get ready for a Conservative/DUP coalition 9th Jun 17 at 7:11 AM
    Well, don't, although it's been a very strange night.

    Nigel Dodds as chancellor? Gregory Campbell in defence?

    Something wrong when only hotheads win on both sides.

    Round here is a prime example - the eloquent, intelligent and accomplished Doug Beattie is rejected in favour of the invisible man, David Simpson. Has anyone ever heard him speak? An mp who's never on the radio for anything. How's that work?
    Or an mp who doesn't go to parliament, so no representative for the catholic population in Westminster. That can't be right.

    Incomprehensible.
Page 4
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Jun 17, 4:49 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    It is a disaster for Stormont as the Conservatives can no longer be described as impartial for the talks to get Stormont up and running.


    In theory, it should be good for NI, but without a functioning assembly I am skeptical that it will be.


    I hope the DUP ask for things that will benefit the whole of NI, such as no reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, promises to replace EU funding etc, and not for things that are more divisive, such as amnesty on prosecutions of soldiers, or a block on the Irish Language Act etc.


    Only time will tell.
    Originally posted by Tammykitty
    James brokenshire has already said a period of direct rule is likely. Whether that period extends to beyond a time when I'm too old to see the ballot paper was not specified.
    • mmackey234
    • By mmackey234 12th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
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    mmackey234
    How about not voting along sectarian lines or campaigning using fear tactics then we will really see democracy win.. But for now, nothing changes.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Jun 17, 6:31 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    How about not voting along sectarian lines or campaigning using fear tactics then we will really see democracy win.. But for now, nothing changes.
    Originally posted by mmackey234
    That's the bind we're in. IRA supporters or free Presbyterians. Is that representative of the population?
    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 12th Jun 17, 6:59 PM
    • 240 Posts
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    CEON44
    That's the bind we're in. IRA supporters or free Presbyterians. Is that representative of the population?
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    But how do we ever get out of that situation. Its depressing
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 12th Jun 17, 7:13 PM
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    CEON44
    On a slightly different subject can anyone explain to me why whenever one of our political parties has something to say to camera, about a dozen of their nodding donkey colleagues have to cram in together like peas in a pod, bobbing up and down to be seen. Whenever you see politicians in England Scotland Wales or ROI if someone has something to say they are on their own. FFS!
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • joefizz
    • By joefizz 12th Jun 17, 7:53 PM
    • 108 Posts
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    joefizz
    But how do we ever get out of that situation. Its depressing
    Originally posted by CEON44
    We already are. In 5-15 years time nationalists/catholics will be in a majority of similar percentages (5-15%)
    Depending on how Brexit goes will determine how quick the border poll comes along and the DUP etc know it. The DUP also know why we are getting out of the IRA/Sinn Fein Free Ps question as well.
    The IRA decommissioned 12 years ago, now there are arguments about this and that and all sorts but the 18-24 year olds were 6-12 back then. 20 year olds voting now were born after the final ceasefire.
    Thats why they appeal to the youth, even the latest batch of Sinn Fein politicians have little or no baggage (other than family connections). I know a lot of 40s unionist/protestant people who would vote Sinn Fein on their policies/manifestos if it wasnt for the fact most still remember the baggage from the first half of their life (maybe they do vote that way and dont say - I dont know).

    Regarding the DUP, well its well known we all get more conservative/right wing as we get older, hence if you go to the polling stations late morning/mid afternoon you will see minibus loads of DUP supporters getting ferried in from various locations and nursing homes etc. Thats why I bet on Brexit, Ive never seen such a turnout and knew we were all doomed then ;-)
    Thats why we have apparently polarised when in fact we are approaching left wing/right wing politics albeit in our own peculiar way. If it wasnt for Brexit we would probably see a normalisation of politics here in the next two elections.
    Its primarily the Brexit debate which has reignited the border poll debate, something Id not heard tell of in years apart from hard core older republicans. Now its common talk in all age ranges and in all political left and centrist conversations. Its primarily not wanting to belong to a small isolated country run by morons (rather joining a smaller not so isolated country also run by morons, but not Tory ones).

    The DUP did miss a trick with going for Brexit and putting it as a union thing, it could be argued they have singlehandly done more to destabilise the union and polarise opinion by going against what most people wanted (and again a lot of the vote here was influenced by political parties, if the DUP had voted in instead of out a sizeable amount of their core vote would have done the same). Of course they saw the pound signs...
    The deal they do with the Tories now will speak volumes, will it appeal to the 'unionists' in them (lots of balls that means nothing outside of the 1.8million people here) or their current real core support of the older 50+ demographic. The 'new' queens speech will tell all. A lot of the older folk here are also reasonably wealthy (ex prison officers, ex-ruc, ex-whatever) on really good pensions (which makes up a lot of the block grant - so if you want to cut something...) and thats now their core support and the people who will respond quite well to fear so will be interesting to see if they do anything for them or see it as an opportunity to line their pockets (or get westminster to fund RHI and keep all those chickens warm!).

    Interesting times but the polarisation does mark a change in politics even though it may not be obvious. Brexit and more importantly its aftermath will be key.
    • Zola.
    • By Zola. 13th Jun 17, 9:19 AM
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    Zola.
    I think you are deluding yourself a little bit if you think the vast majority of DUP voters are over 50s. Sure they have plenty of middle aged and elderly voters, I don't think its as simple as waiting for a generation to die off before it all changes.

    Until the whatabouttery, fear factor of 'them uns' goes away, the same cycle of nonsense will only continue.

    * I am neither a DUPer or a Shinner voter.

    PS a united Ireland would probably wreck our economy.
    Last edited by Zola.; 13-06-2017 at 9:26 AM.
    • saverbuyer
    • By saverbuyer 13th Jun 17, 11:54 AM
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    saverbuyer
    Why would it wreck our economy?

    Average salary in the south is 50% higher. GDP is probably around 300% more.

    Or do you mean the removal of the block grant would wreck our economy?

    English parliament can remove that at anytime

    The demographics suggest nationalists will have a majority in 8 years. It really is as simple as waiting for the "ones to die off".
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 13th Jun 17, 12:09 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    It's yesterday's row. Down south, 23% of children are foreign born or foreign parented. There's a new world upon us, people. Any talk of old and young voters and who's going to vote for which party will become increasingly irrelevant over the above cited 10 to 15 years. Ireland will be an island populated by disparate groups - a nation never again. Blame Bertie ahern.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 13-06-2017 at 12:12 PM.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 13th Jun 17, 12:10 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Why would it wreck our economy?

    Average salary in the south is 50% higher. GDP is probably around 300% more.

    Or do you mean the removal of the block grant would wreck our economy?

    English parliament can remove that at anytime

    The demographics suggest nationalists will have a majority in 8 years. It really is as simple as waiting for the "ones to die off".
    Originally posted by saverbuyer
    Remove it now. See who really wants to live here. Could get quiet with fewer people. Peace.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 13th Jun 17, 12:27 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Why would it wreck our economy?

    Average salary in the south is 50% higher. GDP is probably around 300% more.

    Or do you mean the removal of the block grant would wreck our economy?

    English parliament can remove that at anytime

    The demographics suggest nationalists will have a majority in 8 years. It really is as simple as waiting for the "ones to die off".
    Originally posted by saverbuyer
    It's well recognised that calculations of GDP and indeed gnp are not of much use in the Republic of Ireland due to all the fancy accounting tricks used to launder profits through Ireland for tax reasons. Apple, for instance, is officially an Irish company. Median income is indeed higher, costs are much higher. Tax is colossal. Health care is expensive. The elite are amazingly overpaid.

    The mighty west Germany had quite a struggle (ein Kampf?)subsuming the old DDR. We can expect an economic cataclysm, and we all know what that leads to. As I've said before, north London would get very crowded, very quickly.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 26th Jun 17, 5:40 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    ...and now it's happened. How long would you give it?
    More free money. More dependence on English largesse. More of a spending backlash when England eventually elects a labour government.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 26-06-2017 at 5:50 PM.
    • tommie
    • By tommie 26th Jun 17, 6:01 PM
    • 320 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    tommie
    Rejoice!!


    Take it and be thankful,


    Gift horse and all that...
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 26th Jun 17, 6:10 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Well, probably, but the long term implications may be interesting. Having confidently expected president Hillary, a majority for remain and a strong Tory victory, I'm not making any predictions. The only result I was correct on was a retreat for Scottish nationalism. I'd say you could have made a useful profit if you'd been able to bet on Alex salmond losing his seat in 2017, a couple of years ago.

    I see the Scots are upset already (check The Scotsman website) - suddenly all this money is available for here and none for them. Who could blame them?

    I can't see why TM needed a deal at all. The DUP were not going to back Corbyn.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 26-06-2017 at 6:52 PM.
    • redped
    • By redped 26th Jun 17, 7:11 PM
    • 602 Posts
    • 537 Thanks
    redped
    I see the Scots are upset already (check The Scotsman website) - suddenly all this money is available for here and none for them. Who could blame them?
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    There was nothing stopping either the SNP or Plaid Cymru from doing a deal with the Conservatives - sounds like sour grapes on their part.

    I'm just stunned that NI politicians have acted like grown-ups for once, and have secured money which will benefit everyone in NI, not just one side or the other.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 27th Jun 17, 11:37 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    I can't see SNP making a deal with the Toarrries, but you're right - whose fault's that?
    Looks like they've had their day - even in the seats they won, they were nowhere near 50 % of the vote. Therefore a referendum if forced through should lead to yet another political career ending in failure. More Scottish labour MPs?
    • Zola.
    • By Zola. 27th Jun 17, 3:54 PM
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    • 388 Thanks
    Zola.
    I'd like to see just how this money will be spent.

    No doubt the DUP will find some shameful way to make a pigs ear of it.

    And RHI hasnt even been investigated yet...
    • guiriman
    • By guiriman 27th Jun 17, 4:19 PM
    • 345 Posts
    • 203 Thanks
    guiriman
    I'd like to see just how this money will be spent.

    No doubt the DUP will find some shameful way to make a pigs ear of it.

    And RHI hasnt even been investigated yet...
    Originally posted by Zola.
    If there's no return to Stormont then it will be controlled by Westminster, if Stormont returns then it will be both DUP and Sinn Fein. I'd be shocked if all the spending areas mentioned ended up with DUP ministers
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 27th Jun 17, 5:19 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    If there's no return to Stormont then it will be controlled by Westminster, if Stormont returns then it will be both DUP and Sinn Fein. I'd be shocked if all the spending areas mentioned ended up with DUP ministers
    Originally posted by guiriman
    They won't and they can't. The opposition will be ready to pull this down at the slightest hint of skullduggery.

    Credit where credit's due and all that - you have to hand it to Arlene for squeezing a billion quid out of a PM who really didn't need to give her anything. Perhaps they should call her in to negotiate brexit.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 27-06-2017 at 5:22 PM.
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