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    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 9th Jun 17, 7:11 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Get ready for a Conservative/DUP coalition
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:11 AM
    Get ready for a Conservative/DUP coalition 9th Jun 17 at 7:11 AM
    Well, don't, although it's been a very strange night.

    Nigel Dodds as chancellor? Gregory Campbell in defence?

    Something wrong when only hotheads win on both sides.

    Round here is a prime example - the eloquent, intelligent and accomplished Doug Beattie is rejected in favour of the invisible man, David Simpson. Has anyone ever heard him speak? An mp who's never on the radio for anything. How's that work?
    Or an mp who doesn't go to parliament, so no representative for the catholic population in Westminster. That can't be right.

    Incomprehensible.
Page 3
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 11th Jun 17, 5:17 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Not trying to be funny but if you don't agree with any of the DUP UDA views above why would you even vote for them? What policy, unique to the DUP UDA attracts you to them? For me, the views listed above are typical, they are in their genetic makeup. You couldn't put a rolling paper between them and the other unionist parties on non-socio political views. I'm from a family of ex diehard DUPers but the corruption and scandal turned them. I can't for the life of me see why it hasn't turned all rational people. Unless it's fear of the demographics, but you can't stop the tide with intolerance, it just further motivates nationalists, converts soft catholic unionists and takes us closer to the 50% plus one.

    The boarder poll only has to be won once. Unionism has to continue to win forever. The DUP UDA isn't the kind of party to bring people with them. All they are doing now is consolidating in a sectarian headcount. If the moderates don't come back, this is all just a journey to a "lost" or "won" boarder poll.
    Originally posted by saverbuyer
    It's all wound up with the voter's dilemma of wondering what the point is in voting for a candidate unless everyone else does. Therefore vote for the candidate seen as the likely victor. These days that's the DUP or Sinn Fein. Vote while holding your nose.
    As above, the Sinn Fein/ IRA approach of the last forty years or so has been far from conducive to reasonable politics. Do you know anyone who was persuaded to alter their views by their antics? Since the united ireland was the radical option, the fact that there has been an absence of change in voting patterns towards some bright future where you can forget your past ( copyright, bob Marley) is their fault, not that of those who have failed to be persuaded.

    We used to have a boarder in our house. We evicted him. The border hasn't changed though.
    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 11th Jun 17, 6:15 PM
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    CEON44
    It is indeed a dilemma and as I said I dont feel I have had much choice in my vote. I have become very unsettled lately of the large swing in Nationalist voters moving to SF. To me this says that some friends/neighbours/work colleagues believe that their best option is voting for murderers, terrorists etc. This shift I believe is why a lot of unionist voters have left the UUP. Both the UUP and SDLP are now sinking ships and at some point will disappear leaving both sides with only two options, vote for your colour or dont vote at all.
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 11th Jun 17, 7:09 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    The greatest free electioneering for the DUP was Michelle's speechmaking at commemorations for dead bombers, killed at loughgall and clonoe. Sit back and watch the votes come in.
    • saverbuyer
    • By saverbuyer 11th Jun 17, 9:02 PM
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    saverbuyer
    It's all wound up with the voter's dilemma of wondering what the point is in voting for a candidate unless everyone else does. Therefore vote for the candidate seen as the likely victor. These days that's the DUP or Sinn Fein. Vote while holding your nose.
    As above, the Sinn Fein/ IRA approach of the last forty years or so has been far from conducive to reasonable politics. Do you know anyone who was persuaded to alter their views by their antics? Since the united ireland was the radical option, the fact that there has been an absence of change in voting patterns towards some bright future where you can forget your past ( copyright, bob Marley) is their fault, not that of those who have failed to be persuaded.

    We used to have a boarder in our house. We evicted him. The border hasn't changed though.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    I haven't looked at the voter demographics yet. I wonder how the pre GFA kids are voting. The one who'd find it hard to make the SF IRA connection. The IRA is gone. It's the new votes coming through now who will make the decisions.

    The only protestants I know who have been persuaded to vote SF now, are the ones who got them to successfully complete the DLA forms after their unionist office failed to get the award points.
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 11th Jun 17, 9:09 PM
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    x12yhp
    Sorry to seem like I am targeting but terms like "dup/uda" and "sf/ira" are what puts us here. These terms succeed in polarising opinion. Unionists hear the ira link and assume they need the dup to counter that. Nationalists hear uda and think sf is their option against. The use of these terms pushes people to vote for the parties, not the opposite.
    Always overestimating...
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 11th Jun 17, 9:29 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Sorry to seem like I am targeting but terms like "dup/uda" and "sf/ira" are what puts us here. These terms succeed in polarising opinion. Unionists hear the ira link and assume they need the dup to counter that. Nationalists hear uda and think sf is their option against. The use of these terms pushes people to vote for the parties, not the opposite.
    Originally posted by x12yhp
    Except during the troubles, when things were nasty, neither dup nor sinnfein polled well. Extremism has prospered post GFA.
    • RikM
    • By RikM 11th Jun 17, 11:21 PM
    • 533 Posts
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    RikM
    Am I right in thinking that Protestantism was set up just so Henry viii could remarry?
    Originally posted by MatthewAinsworth
    In the same way that catholicism was set up just so they could have unleavened bread in the Eucharist...
    • Cotta
    • By Cotta 12th Jun 17, 11:21 AM
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    Cotta
    Surely holding the balance of power can only be good for us in NI in terms of finance for health, schools and infrastructure as well as during the Brexit negotiations.


    Why so much negativity is beyond me.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Jun 17, 11:32 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Surely holding the balance of power can only be good for us in NI in terms of finance for health, schools and infrastructure as well as during the Brexit negotiations.


    Why so much negativity is beyond me.
    Originally posted by Cotta
    Possibly. AF would need to remember that after another early election, Mr. C may be in number 10. Better not get too deep with the tories.
    • Cotta
    • By Cotta 12th Jun 17, 11:36 AM
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    Cotta
    Possibly. AF would need to remember that after another early election, Mr. C may be in number 10. Better not get too deep with the tories.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    Agreed but Corbyn is in dangers of doing exactly what Mrs. May did in that he assumes he will win if there is another election - whilst it may only lead to awakening sleeping Tory voters.

    In addition to this JC is being a little arrogant in feeling that finishing second entitles him to setup a government and lets face it if JC wins another election he won't be favourable to any Unionists regardless of what happens now.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Jun 17, 12:04 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Agreed but Corbyn is in dangers of doing exactly what Mrs. May did in that he assumes he will win if there is another election - whilst it may only lead to awakening sleeping Tory voters.

    In addition to this JC is being a little arrogant in feeling that finishing second entitles him to setup a government and lets face it if JC wins another election he won't be favourable to any Unionists regardless of what happens now.
    Originally posted by Cotta
    Well that would be Sinn Fein's moment to turn up in Westminster.
    • Cotta
    • By Cotta 12th Jun 17, 12:10 PM
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    Cotta
    Well that would be Sinn Fein's moment to turn up in Westminster.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    Then Westminster becomes relevant and the Dail does not, the Union strengthened and their central plank removed. They will look closely at what happened to the SDLP.
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 12th Jun 17, 1:36 PM
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    Tammykitty
    It is indeed a dilemma and as I said I dont feel I have had much choice in my vote. I have become very unsettled lately of the large swing in Nationalist voters moving to SF. To me this says that some friends/neighbours/work colleagues believe that their best option is voting for murderers, terrorists etc. This shift I believe is why a lot of unionist voters have left the UUP. Both the UUP and SDLP are now sinking ships and at some point will disappear leaving both sides with only two options, vote for your colour or dont vote at all.
    Originally posted by CEON44

    The reason you vote for the DUP is the same reason that nationalists vote for SF - they are the only nationalist party with any sway at Stormont.


    Like you, Nationalists have become disillusioned with the majority of the unionists voting DUP (who are also linked with terrorists - just not as directly as SF - but a large number of the older members have links with terrorist organisations), as they view the DUP as very anti-Catholic and very unwilling to accommodate Irish Culture.
    Therefore they vote SF, as unfortunately they are the biggest nationalist party.


    I am very disappointed with the NI electorate in general, most people when you talk to them are reasonable people with reasonable views, and don't seem to support extremism on either side, yet at the ballot box, they vote for it.


    For the second part of your quote:
    vote for your colour or dont vote at all


    - there is and always will be an alternative - vote neutral - Alliance, greens etc.


    I fully support a united Ireland, but recognize it won't happen until the majority of the North want it - and until that time I will vote for whatever non extremist party most reflect my views, especially at Stormont elections - as there is always a chance of the neutral parties getting a seat.
    Last edited by Tammykitty; 12-06-2017 at 3:06 PM.
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    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 12th Jun 17, 2:20 PM
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    CEON44
    I fully support a united Ireland, but recognize it won't happy until the majority of the North want it - and until that time I will vote for whatever non extremist party most reflect my views, especially at Stormont elections - as there is always a chance of the neutral parties getting a seat.
    I also consider my non-extremist although I do vote for DUP. But all who support a united Ireland seem to believe that if and when they get a majority thats it all over and we're one big happy family. I certainly hope I'm not around when it happens because I believe there will be carnage the like never seen before on this island. Protestants will not roll over. The whole thing will switch round, with the protestant minority being the ones who will feel the need to rebel. Seems to me that currently SF want to ram Irish nationalism down protestant throats at any opportunity. What would happen when they had a legitimite right to do so in a UI. I never hear anyone mentioning post UI. But its something everyone will need to consider deeply if ever a vote comes
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • tommie
    • By tommie 12th Jun 17, 2:45 PM
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    tommie
    Hmmm......UI?

    Do the South really want to put up with some of the rabble up here?
    Can they afford us? No Block Grant any more!
    Border areas with the highest per capita of benefit claimants (SF voters), that will be gone from them..

    SF paint it as a paradise just waiting.. the truth will be far removed from that

    Old saying "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Jun 17, 2:54 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    The reason you vote for the DUP is the same reason that nationalists vote for SF - they are the only nationalist party with any sway at Stormont.


    Like you, Nationalists have become disillusioned with the majority of the unionists voting DUP (who are also linked with terrorists - just not as directly as SF - but a large number of the older members have links with terrorist organisations), as they view the DUP as very anti-Catholic and very unwilling to accommodate Irish Culture.
    Therefore they vote SF, as unfortunately they are the biggest nationalist party.


    I am very disappointed with the NI electorate in general, most people when you talk to them are reasonable people with reasonable views, and don't seem to support extremism on either side, yet at the ballot box, they vote for it.


    For the second part of your quote:
    vote for your colour or dont vote at all


    - there is and always will be an alternative - vote neutral - Alliance, greens etc.


    I fully support a united Ireland, but recognize it won't happy until the majority of the North want it - and until that time I will vote for whatever non extremist party most reflect my views, especially at Stormont elections - as there is always a chance of the neutral parties getting a seat.
    Originally posted by Tammykitty
    The PR system is suitable for the above policy, the Westminster elections in most cases are not.
    Any politician supporting the idea of a united ireland should be spending their time trying to persuade people to vote in favour of it, and not just maximising their own side's turnout. When Norway seceded from Sweden in 1905, around 98% of people ( well, men, anyway) voted in favour. If Sinn Fein were to manage a mighty turn out and for some (admittedly unlikely) reason there was a low unionist poll, leading to a 50%+1 result in their favour, what an unhappy outcome that would be. The same applies to Scottish nationalism, where the recently chastened Nicola sturgeon spent the last couple of years talking about "the Scottish" and "Scotland", meaning those who voted for her, and everybody else, who were in fact the majority, can get lost. Bad idea.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Jun 17, 2:57 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Hmmm......UI?

    Do the South really want to put up with some of the rabble up here?
    Can they afford us? No Block Grant any more!
    Border areas with the highest per capita of benefit claimants (SF voters), that will be gone from them..

    SF paint it as a paradise just waiting.. the truth will be far removed from that

    Old saying "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.
    Originally posted by tommie
    Kilburn and Camden Town (also known as County Kilburn and Ballycamden) could get very crowded, very quickly. Who knows, it might be for the best.
    • RikM
    • By RikM 12th Jun 17, 2:58 PM
    • 533 Posts
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    RikM
    Surely holding the balance of power can only be good for us in NI in terms of finance for health, schools and infrastructure as well as during the Brexit negotiations.


    Why so much negativity is beyond me.
    Originally posted by Cotta
    Good for NI? Or good for the DUP? I'm sure they would like you to think it's the same thing... The problem is, in the long term, anything which keeps the DUP going (or any other narrow local party) is probably a bad thing. Isolating the electorate from the rest of the country.
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 12th Jun 17, 3:30 PM
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    Tammykitty
    I also consider my non-extremist although I do vote for DUP. But all who support a united Ireland seem to believe that if and when they get a majority thats it all over and we're one big happy family. I certainly hope I'm not around when it happens because I believe there will be carnage the like never seen before on this island. Protestants will not roll over. The whole thing will switch round, with the protestant minority being the ones who will feel the need to rebel. Seems to me that currently SF want to ram Irish nationalism down protestant throats at any opportunity. What would happen when they had a legitimite right to do so in a UI. I never hear anyone mentioning post UI. But its something everyone will need to consider deeply if ever a vote comes
    Originally posted by CEON44

    In my opinion anyone that supports the DUP or SF is supporting extremism and the them vs us attitude


    Both the DUP and SF would actually be better off accommodating "the other side" -


    The unionists need catholics to realise the north is no longer "a cold place for catholics" - and that they could be happy with a functioning NI government, and allow the promotion and celebration of the Irish identity within the UK.


    This way the catholics would me more likely to not vote for a UI


    The nationalist need to not alienate the unionists and make them realize that that a UI wouldn't be a disaster and that the even in a UI, there is still a place for the Unionists, and the culture could still be accommodated - this is likely to mean that if the vote was ever 50% +1, the transition is likely to be smoother, and maybe some unionists would even vote for a UI given the right circumstances.
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    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 12th Jun 17, 3:37 PM
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    Tammykitty
    Surely holding the balance of power can only be good for us in NI in terms of finance for health, schools and infrastructure as well as during the Brexit negotiations.


    Why so much negativity is beyond me.
    Originally posted by Cotta

    It is a disaster for Stormont as the Conservatives can no longer be described as impartial for the talks to get Stormont up and running.


    In theory, it should be good for NI, but without a functioning assembly I am skeptical that it will be.


    I hope the DUP ask for things that will benefit the whole of NI, such as no reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, promises to replace EU funding etc, and not for things that are more divisive, such as amnesty on prosecutions of soldiers, or a block on the Irish Language Act etc.


    Only time will tell.
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